New here, looking to go back to rack

[7enderbender]

Hello everyone,

Great information here on this site! I'm new here and I'm tinkering with the idea to build a new rack centered around a Triaxis and a power amp (Mesa 2:fifty or VHT 2:50:2 perhaps). Currently I have two rigs, a Fender CyberTwin for convenience and easy transport - and a large rig that went through various iterations over time but at the core is built around a Mesa V-Twin rack-converted pedal with midi switching, a TC G-Force, switchable Boss rack EQ, Lehle looper, and a late 80s Marshall JCM 800 head converted to two channel. The large rig sounds great and is extremely versatile but a pain in the behind to drag around and set up on stage.
The CyberTwin is a nice piece of gear but has it's sonic limitations (though not as bad as some people think).

I'm now toying with the idea of getting a in-between rig with said Triaxis and a power amp. I'd combine it then with a 1x12 (or two of them) instead of the current Marshall 4x12 for portability (I almost always mike my amps and don't go for a lot of volume on stage).

I know, it's kind of ridiculous to consider this downsizing and I have though about a Mark IV combo amp. My concern with those would be that I'd still be dealing with hooking up a ton of cables on stage, dealing with the cumbersome midi conversion on those amps - and still have fewer options than with a fully midi accessible setup. For me personally rack was never dead and I still prefer digital rack effects over all those "boutique" pedals and stuff - although I'd be looking to integrate my Tubescreamer and OCD pedals.

Sorry to ramble on, but I thought it might help to give some history first. I currently play in a cover band doing a mix of classic rock and some 90s and current harder edged stuff. So musically, the Triaxis should be a good fit and I always liked the sounds I heard from other people - and not just the mid scooped balls to the walls heavy sounds but also some midrangy Marshall-like crunch and spongy cleans. I know that I'm a bit funny that way living between traditional gear (old Marshalls, my beloved original Fender 58 vintage strat, etc) and modern amps. Works for me.

So the Triaxis should be a go. Big question now is what to do about 1) the poweramp and 2) the cabs


Poweramp: So far I've always preferred EL34 amps. That kind of narrows it down to the 2:fifty and the VHT/Fryette amps. I don't want too much headroom and never liked amps with more than about 50w of tube power. So the 2:ninety doesn't sound like a good choice for me. What still bugs me is that I'd be kind of forced to go stereo which never made sense for me. But as far as I know there are no major brand mono EL34 amps out there.

The other question that comes with is if I could still run fake-mono with both channels putting out the same sound (for instance by hooking up the G-Force mono in the effects loop, which would allow me to add in my mono rack EQ as well and not having to find/buy a second one of those).

Speaker cabs: since reducing size and back pain here is a key factor I'm thinking about getting two 1x12 cabs. Issue is that my favorite speaker is the Celestion G12T75. I don't think there are cabs that come with those. Marshall has the 1912 cab with the 150w version of that. That might work but they're pricy. Mesa 1x12 can be had cheaply but I never liked their speaker choices such as the V30 speakers which I can't stand. So I'd be dealing with swapping those out.

Looking forward to any input.

 

[eatsleeprock]

Just putting this out there. I very recently switched from a triaxis/2:90 setup to a mark iv combo. I use a tc gsystem with the mark iv. I've got the brain tie strapped to the top of the combo (and its still fits in the flight case, yay!) So it stays wired. I plug a power cable from the amp in, and a long rj45 cable into the gsystem brain, and thays ts it for setup. Literally could not be easier.

If you ate going the rack route tho, check out the 20/20. Its light, sounds great, and makes a huge amount of noise.

 

[7enderbender]

Just putting this out there. I very recently switched from a triaxis/2:90 setup to a mark iv combo. I use a tc gsystem with the mark iv. I've got the brain tie strapped to the top of the combo (and its still fits in the flight case, yay!) So it stays wired. I plug a power cable from the amp in, and a long rj45 cable into the gsystem brain, and thays ts it for setup. Literally could not be easier.

If you ate going the rack route tho, check out the 20/20. Its light, sounds great, and makes a huge amount of noise.

Thanks for that. I certainly am going to check out the 20/20 as well.

May I ask what triggered your switch? Was this more a size/weight decision or sound considerations? I always liked the Mark IV - no doubt about that. And the g-system does the channel switching for you, right? G-Force doesn't and I gave up on my G-Major that had the two amp relays because it failed all the time. So I'd still be looking at the Amp Gizmo or something like that.

 

[eatsleeprock]

G system does all of my switching for me. It really is a powerful unit. I've had mine for about two years, never had any problems. I use it for all of my front and back end effects, although will occasionally through a real pedal or two into one of the loops.
I made the switch for a couple of reasons.

1) I was only using about four different tones
2) as much as I was quite happy with my tone, I felt there was something missing. The mark iv was that something.
3) I missed being able to 'tweak' a rig of the fly.
4) compactness/weight
5) I am considering going back to analog effects (again with the tweaking) and the triaxis would have forced me to stay midi
6) retube costs were ridiculous (16 tubes)
7) I ge bored easily

 

[IronSean]

Carvin makes a nice Tube poweramp called the TS100. It's 50 watts stereo, 100 watts bridged, and comes equipped with EL34s by default, with the option of switching to 6L6s. They're only 550 new, and used from 2-400. The only complaint is that it's a relatively clean and clear poweramp, there isn't a lot of colouration of the preamp tone. This is great for something like an Axe FX, but some people prefer the sound added by a mesa power amp.

Have you considered getting a 212 cab instead of two ones? You could wire them for stereo to use both power amp outputs. And take a look around for used, you might find someone has already done the upgrade for you. I picked up a Carvin Legacy 212 that someone had already replaced the V30s with G12-T75s as a fluke.

 

[7enderbender]

Carvin makes a nice Tube poweramp called the TS100. It's 50 watts stereo, 100 watts bridged, and comes equipped with EL34s by default, with the option of switching to 6L6s. They're only 550 new, and used from 2-400. The only complaint is that it's a relatively clean and clear poweramp, there isn't a lot of colouration of the preamp tone. This is great for something like an Axe FX, but some people prefer the sound added by a mesa power amp.

Have you considered getting a 212 cab instead of two ones? You could wire them for stereo to use both power amp outputs. And take a look around for used, you might find someone has already done the upgrade for you. I picked up a Carvin Legacy 212 that someone had already replaced the V30s with G12-T75s as a fluke.

The TS100 Carvin looks interesting. I wonder how it would compare to the Marshall EL34 50w or the VHT 50w amps. I actually like the idea that it doesn't color the sound necessarily. Though EL34 amps usually add that mid range honk and a bit of sag is not a bad thing.

Yes, I'm thinking along the lines of 2x12 Marshall cab with T75s. Question with that is if those are ultimately really that much lighter and easier to handle compared to my existing Marshall 4x12. But it would work I guess.

 

[IronSean]

Carvin makes a nice Tube poweramp called the TS100. It's 50 watts stereo, 100 watts bridged, and comes equipped with EL34s by default, with the option of switching to 6L6s. They're only 550 new, and used from 2-400. The only complaint is that it's a relatively clean and clear poweramp, there isn't a lot of colouration of the preamp tone. This is great for something like an Axe FX, but some people prefer the sound added by a mesa power amp.

Have you considered getting a 212 cab instead of two ones? You could wire them for stereo to use both power amp outputs. And take a look around for used, you might find someone has already done the upgrade for you. I picked up a Carvin Legacy 212 that someone had already replaced the V30s with G12-T75s as a fluke.

The TS100 Carvin looks interesting. I wonder how it would compare to the Marshall EL34 50w or the VHT 50w amps. I actually like the idea that it doesn't color the sound necessarily. Though EL34 amps usually add that mid range honk and a bit of sag is not a bad thing.

Yes, I'm thinking along the lines of 2x12 Marshall cab with T75s. Question with that is if those are ultimately really that much lighter and easier to handle compared to my existing Marshall 4x12. But it would work I guess.

Well, the weight in the speaker cab only comes from two places: Wood, and the speakers themselves. You've got 1/3 of the wood, and half as many speakers, so it'll definitely be lighter. Not to mention a less awkwardly large shape. I've got a 5150 212 combo about the size of a 412 and weighing 90 lbs, and my Carvin 212 feels like I'm carrying feathers in comparison. Also significantly lighter than any 412 I've ever lifted.

Swing by a local shop, find a 212 and give it a lift.

Also probably plug something in, and make sure you're ok with the differences in sound between a 412 and 212.

 

[eatsleeprock]

I have one of the Marshall 1936 2*12s. Used to have a pair. Great sounding cabs, and significantly lighter than a mesa 2*12. I swapped the speakers in one of them to v30s, but they sound good either way.

 

[7enderbender]

So the 2x12 seems like a good option then.

I actually looked into a 2:90 today that I might be able to get for an ok price. But with that and a 2x12 cab with 75w speakers on each side I'd be running the risk of overpowering things, right?

Also, I'm wondering if either the 2:90 or 2:50 can be run as "dual mono" or whatever you want to call this? Is there a way to feed just one input on the Mesa power amps and still get output from both sides? I checked the manuals and various sites and couldn't find anything on that. Basically, I'd be looking to feed just one out from a Triaxis (or my V-Twin for the time being) to ensure that the stereo amp really runs in mono always to avoid phasing issues etc. Actually, ideally I'd like to just run one side of the effects loop so I could still use my rack EQ without having to buy a second one.

 

[IronSean]

So the 2x12 seems like a good option then.

I actually looked into a 2:90 today that I might be able to get for an ok price. But with that and a 2x12 cab with 75w speakers on each side I'd be running the risk of overpowering things, right?

Also, I'm wondering if either the 2:90 or 2:50 can be run as "dual mono" or whatever you want to call this? Is there a way to feed just one input on the Mesa power amps and still get output from both sides? I checked the manuals and various sites and couldn't find anything on that. Basically, I'd be looking to feed just one out from a Triaxis (or my V-Twin for the time being) to ensure that the stereo amp really runs in mono always to avoid phasing issues etc. Actually, ideally I'd like to just run one side of the effects loop so I could still use my rack EQ without having to buy a second one.

That Mesa 2:90 manual is pretty sparse actually. Not nearly as informative as some of their older manuals.

As for the 75w speakers, you wouldn't necessarily blow them if you are careful with your output levels, but the risk is certainly there. Might be a situation where you just want to run mono and only have one 90 watts running into both speakers.

I might be wrong, but I think until you introduce something to the chain that actually changes the left and right outputs (ie, stereo effects or different signal chains) you're still essentially outputting two identical signals and for intents and purposes it's mono. It's putting mono effects in the loop that makes this trickier. You have a few options:

1) Get a Y splitter cable, and just run your effects into return A, then the Y cable from output A to both inputs of the Power Amp.

2) Just run one side of your Power amp: I'd double check this applies to the 2:90 but on a lot of older Mesa Power Amps they support single channel operation. That is, turn the volume to 0 and the Presence to 10 on the channel you're not using, then only plug into one channel. Note: this definitely doesn't apply to Peavey and Carvin power amps.

2a) Probably just make sure your Cabinet has a Stereo/Mono switch on it for this, then you can still use both speakers.

3) Run one side into the effects and the other straight to the power amp: Get a natural, 50/50 mix of wet/dry.

 

[7enderbender]

Here is what I would do before I'd be getting the Triaxis. And ideally similarly later to still be able to use the mono EQ. So does using only input A on the 2:90 result in having a signal on Output A and Output B? Or only on Output A?

Here's my potential temporary solution with my V-Twin:

 

[Triaxstasy]

The 2:90 has no "Bridged" Mode, so 2 Inputs > 2 Outputs.
Either Stereo or Dual Mono.....
...you could use an ABY-box or a Y-cable after your mono EQ to split/Y your signal and make it dual mono though....

 

[7enderbender]

The 2:90 has no "Bridged" Mode, so 2 Inputs > 2 Outputs.
Either Stereo or Dual Mono.....
...you could use an ABY-box or a Y-cable after your mono EQ to split/Y your signal and make it dual mono though....

ok, I get it now. So this is apparently different from the VHT/Fryette amps then:

http://www.fryette-users.com/forums/showthread.php?2464-Can-you-run-2-50-2-in-dual-mono

Danke!

 

[IronSean]

The 2:90 has no "Bridged" Mode, so 2 Inputs > 2 Outputs.
Either Stereo or Dual Mono.....
...you could use an ABY-box or a Y-cable after your mono EQ to split/Y your signal and make it dual mono though....

ok, I get it now. So this is apparently different from the VHT/Fryette amps then:

http://www.fryette-users.com/forums/showthread.php?2464-Can-you-run-2-50-2-in-dual-mono

Danke!

Actually, that's exactly what we just said:
You can run in dual mono, just plug into both channels. Either by using two outputs from your preamp or effects, or a Y cable to split it into both inputs.

If you only plug into Input A, it will only output from Output A. Now, on most Mesa amps you can turn down the volume on Output B and max the PResence knob and use it as a mono amp that way. (But please confirm this, as the 2:90 manual doesn't mention it!!!)

On some power amps (Carvin TS100 for example), you can either run it in bridged mode (100 watts mono instead of 50 watts stereo), or press the parallel inputs switch which just links both inputs. Electrically, it works the same as using a Y splitter cable.

 

[IronSean]

Could you put the EQ in front of the G-Force, and then use both outputs to feed your power amp?

 

[7enderbender]

Could you put the EQ in front of the G-Force, and then use both outputs to feed your power amp?

Not really. It would likely push the G-Force into clipping since I'm using it as a mid-boost. I could of course get rid of it altogether and just use the EQ options from the G-Force. Slightly different results and not as user friendly but not the end of the world.

So at this point I'm trying to decide if I want the extra options of the 2:90 or spend a little less and get the 2:50 which seems like a good choice for my needs (less power, heat, fewer tubes, probably a bit lighter).

 

[Triaxstasy]

The 2:90 has no "Bridged" Mode, so 2 Inputs > 2 Outputs.
Either Stereo or Dual Mono.....
...you could use an ABY-box or a Y-cable after your mono EQ to split/Y your signal and make it dual mono though....

ok, I get it now. So this is apparently different from the VHT/Fryette amps then:

http://www.fryette-users.com/forums/showthread.php?2464-Can-you-run-2-50-2-in-dual-mono

Danke!

Gerngeschehen!

What´s your location??

 

[7enderbender]

Danke!

Gerngeschehen!

What´s your location??[/quote]

Boston, MA but originally from the Dortmund area.