New amps?

[RWN]

While I understand that the world is different since modelling amps have become popular, there are stage/venue sound level limits and Gibson’s takeover of Mesa Boogie, as a Mesa Boogie owner and fan, it is disappointing that there have been so few new Mesa Boogie amps released over the last 10 years.

Out of all the manufacturers and amps, the DR multi-watt seems to be the only amp that has everything I want, but it also has way more than I need. In an ideal world, there would be a simplified 50W 6L6, 3 channel version of the DR MW with no tube rectifier, no power switching options, no channel modern mode, no tuner out, no slave out, no bold/spongy switch, no EL34 switch and no separate channel/loop/etc switching sockets. It would also be nice to have MIDI and better knobs.

Unfortunately, the TC-50 doesn’t fit the bill since it is EL34 and it doesn’t have the DR’s channel modes. The Badlander also doesn’t appeal since it is EL34, only has 2 channels, and doesn’t have a master output and solo.

Does anyone else think it is hard to find an amp that meets their needs?

 

[mace]

The TC-50 as well as the Badlander take 6L6’s also. But yeah, the Bandlander lacks the Master Output. But the TC-50 with 6L6’s might be worth a try. That’s how I mostly run mine (although I’ve been running 6V6’s for a while for kicks).

 

[JustPassingThrough]

The the DR and don't use the stuff you want? Seems like the options are right there.

 

[RWN]

Yes, the DRMW has all the flexibility I want, but who needs the cost and weight of a 100W head plus a matching large cab these days? They are not appropriate for either home use or most venues. It seems that I would be paying for a huge number of features that I wouldn’t use and such a complex amp means more potential failure points and more expensive servicing.

 

[Theresa]

Why not pull 2 of the 6L6's and get a smaller cab?

 

[CoG]

@RWN wtf are you talking about?! Mesa has put out at least five new amps in the past ten years (Fillmore, Cali Tweed, Badlander, TC, and Mark VII off the top of my head)

If you want a slimmed-down Recto go grab a Single. They are very reasonably priced used, verging on undervalued, and sound good at basement volume thru a V30 cab. If you're looking for something less aggressive, ROV Series II.

But honestly if you're buying a rig to play out in venues where volume is an issue, just go modeler. If you actually gig frequently instead of just thinking you will someday, you will never want to go back. If you've got a big sunk cost in tube amps, get a load/IR box and stop humping cabs around.

 

[user 85623]

Yes, the DRMW has all the flexibility I want, but who needs the cost and weight of a 100W head plus a matching large cab these days? They are not appropriate for either home use or most venues. It seems that I would be paying for a huge number of features that I wouldn’t use and such a complex amp means more potential failure points and more expensive servicing.

well if you're too weak to to move them around and feel like they're "not appropriate" to have at home then buy something else lol
it sounds like you're already convinced you dont want one so then dont get one lol
i've thought about selling my tube amp several times and just getting something cheap...or just using an amp modelling computer program at home.
but the ONLY reason i would ever do that is just because i could get around 1500 for my tube amp and spend alot less on something cheaper lol....but i still have it lol
tube amps are awesome. and they rule lol....i never gig and dont play in a band. i still like having a nice guitar amp at home that sounds great.
i play thru a 2x12. i might get a cab clone ir at some point for running it into a computer/daw but i live in a house so i can play with a bit of volume and dont have apt neighbors and an apt manager to answer too
if i lived in an apt i would probably just get some kind of computer based stuff

 

[user 85623]

Does anyone else think it is hard to find an amp that meets their needs?

no lol.
i owned a jvm410h for about 10 years and now i own a mesa boogie roadster lol

 

[bandit2013]

The only time I will go to a modeling rig is when tubes are no longer available.

The 412 cabs work great at home. Not sure what is wrong with that. V212 cabs are also good too. Nothing wrong with the Badlander 100, has three power modes and can be run at bedroom level at 100W without pissing off neighbors. The Dual Rectifier amps, Roadster and MWDR, different story, they do not behave well at bedroom level. Sure it will work but not as good as running the amp in its sweet spot. I like the V212 cabs as I can get more of them out vs the 412 cabs. I can fit three side by side and keep all of the bass speakers out instead of stacking them. This image is all of the Rectifier amps out. First time I ran a full quad of amps. Since the Mark VII came out, had to have one, then I got a second one for a stereo rig. Now I run two bads and two MKVII in a quad. Sure it is overkill but got no complaints from my neighbors yet. Been doing this for 14 years now with other amps so why stop. I did not start playing bass until a few years ago, same with the drums. but guitar, that is 40+ years now.

They do make power attenuators to reduce the power to the speaker. I have one but do not use it.

When I am alone, I run all 4 amps at once in a dual stereo mode. BADs at 100W and the Mark VII at 90W during the day. When it is late at night, I may drop the power of the amps down to 25W and dial it back some. When company is over, it will just be one amp, usually the Badlander since the guitarist has difficulty with amps having more than one channel. Bass runs a cool 800W, I will make adjustments to its level if the bass player does not do it. I play the drums in the group.

I move the amps around many times, depends on what I want to run. Keep the casters on the cabs and easy to move them. Here is a jam night when company is over.

 

[user 85623]

The 412 cabs work great at home. Not sure what is wrong with that.

i used to use a 4x12 at home -- but i just use a 2x12 now. the 4x12 to me seemed like it put out quite a bit more volume than my 2x12 and was just total overkill for a home/garage/small bar gig...

 

[Theresa]

1 x 12's, 2 x 12's as well as 4 x 12's all have differing dispersion levels, phasing and interaction of speakers. Cabs of different designs also exhibit qualities you may want with certain amps but not others. How much throws do you want? How much spread do you need? So when it comes down to cabs and amps the pairing is as important as wattage. I find 50 watt amps have a sonic characteristic different from 100 watt amps. Their output stage determines the final sonic characteristics coupled with speaker combinations.Certain speakers like to be pushed and some don't. (Ex. G12-25M's through a Marshall SL 100 likes to be pushed) Amps like these need to be driven, akin to a Ferrari or a Bugatti. You don't drive those cars around town and to a grocery store to pick up milk and eggs. You want to open them up on the interstate or somewhere you can have fun rev'ing the car through it's gearbox. Trying to fit an application into a one size fits all category just frustrates the owner and they tend to "bad mouth" the company or amp.I believe this is why modeling amps have become so popular. The trade off is.... well if I have to tell you, then I don't need to be here writing this. SO the question remains, "Why do you buy the amp you're trying to make into something it wasn't built to do?" Apologies for being off topic to the original poster, but somewhat relevant. (I was just in a mood.)

 

[bandit2013]

i used to use a 4x12 at home -- but i just use a 2x12 now. the 4x12 to me seemed like it put out quite a bit more volume than my 2x12 and was just total overkill for a home/garage/small bar gig...

I would agree. The 412 is a bit overkill but it can be managed easily. It just take up too much floor space. the Vertical 212 is my preferred cabinet. Not as scooped in its composure like the standard 412. Depends on the amp I am using. the RA100 does not fit well on the Vertical 212. Roadster and MWDR will fit but looks stupid due to the overall width of the amp chassis. What is overkill is the modified OS Recto cab that I stuffed EVM12L black label speakers. That cab moves some serious air compared to the V30 speakers. Then again, I do not need to run 4 cabs on my bass rig either. Talk about some sub low power. It shakes the entire house.

 

[rarebitusa]

You don't drive those cars around town and to a grocery store to pick up milk and eggs.

Well I would just to look cool in the parking lot need all the help I can get. But...

So when it comes down to cabs and amps the pairing is as important as wattage.

Oh yea no doubt. IMHO it's the rabbit hole that has to be dug. It's a bit too simplistic to place all of the tonal heavy lifting on the amp itself. They are interact together in a big way.

I have found the modeler very useful live in providing an amp/tone that the tube amp can't provide. For example the Badlander doesn't have that Fender like fat clean tone. I get that from the modeler which I run in 4CM.

 

[user 85623]

I would agree. The 412 is a bit overkill but it can be managed easily. It just take up too much floor space. the Vertical 212 is my preferred cabinet. Not as scooped in its composure like the standard 412. Depends on the amp I am using. the RA100 does not fit well on the Vertical 212. Roadster and MWDR will fit but looks stupid due to the overall width of the amp chassis. What is overkill is the modified OS Recto cab that I stuffed EVM12L black label speakers. That cab moves some serious air compared to the V30 speakers. Then again, I do not need to run 4 cabs on my bass rig either. Talk about some sub low power. It shakes the entire house.

View attachment 4473

cool - yeah i would have a bunch of stuff but im too poor lol...i could jam out some motorhead bass lines on that bass rig lol...have you tried an overdrive pedal on it?

 

[CoG]

Oh yea no doubt. IMHO it's the rabbit hole that has to be dug. It's a bit too simplistic to place all of the tonal heavy lifting on the amp itself. They are interact together in a big way.

best suggestion I ever got regarding cabs and speakers as I stared into the bottomless expensive abyss was to just pick something that's widely used and generally accepted as good for the type of stuff you mainly play, and make everything else work around that. Pretend you're endorsed

 

[bandit2013]

cool - yeah i would have a bunch of stuff but im too poor lol...i could jam out some motorhead bass lines on that bass rig lol...have you tried an overdrive pedal on it?

I have tried a few. Felt it sounded artificial though. I thought about getting a LE-Bass pedal that has a 12AX7 tube in it to see if that would work in the FX loop or on the front end. The TT800 does have a slight drive to it, more so after changing the Tung Sol 12AT7 to an RFT 12AT7 and two JAN/Phillips 12AT7 tubes. That took the flatness out of the sound, added some air and a bit more drive. The preamp tube circuits are all cathode follower stages. Not sure which channel I like the best as they both sound really good. To be honest, the 12inch subway cab adds some cone breakup and works with the 5 string bass well. I do not notice its presence with the 4 string as much but I have flat wounds on that bass. It does not punch your pant leg like a 412 cab does, instead, you hit a low E and wait for it, the wall of air will rush after the initial attack hits you. The only song I know on bass is Money by Pink Floyd. I mostly mess around with it and create my own stuff. Still learning the instrument. Never managed to master the slap though. Since I am a guitar player, I use a pick and that works for me.

 

[bandit2013]

It is all good. It does matter what cab/speaker you match with the gear.

+1 on Theresa's post. Well stated.

The only question I have about modeling amps, do you get the same feel and connection you get with a tube amp? Sure, some tube amps you may not connect with or feel that mojo and some you do. When they do draw you in, you lose track of time, they get you into that zone and when you are done you thought that was a good 20 minutes, oops, try like 4 hours if not longer. I have one modeling amp, it may not be all that great. I spend more time trying to make it sound better than actually playing through it. It gets annoying. Sure, it sounds close but does not work like a real tube amp. I heard good things about Fractal AXE stuff. Not sure if they are worth that sort of money. Not sure they have come far enough yet to replace a tube amp.

 

[bandit2013]

There is no right or wrong answer here. I can sympathize with the OP that not all amps will fit my needs either.

However, I can make do with what is available. I barely change channels if the amp has good dynamics. Meaning if the channel I am using with moderate distortion cleans up well with a roll back on the guitar volume and does not lose much in loudness. I have a few amps that do that quite well. The Mark VII is one that does just that. You use that with a 112 cab or get the combo version. I prefer heads so I can change what ever cab I want and not have to deal with the extra weight of a combo. Besides that, you can run it in silent mode and use the cab clone to record or send to front of house. Do not even need to bring a speaker if that is your thing. The same with the Badlander. They both have the CAB Clone IR (two notes torpedo processor built in).

 

[user 85623]

best suggestion I ever got regarding cabs and speakers as I stared into the bottomless expensive abyss was to just pick something that's widely used and generally accepted as good for the type of stuff you mainly play, and make everything else work around that. Pretend you're endorsed

this is good advice lol... thats kind of the way i look at things alot.
learn to be happy with what you have. the whole world of guitars and gear is very much about sales lol...
so i've ended up with a pretty awesome rig - and i got lucky with how good these speakers i have work together... so thats it - they're my speakers lol...
i got an avatar 2x12...does it have the coolest brand name on it? no.... but its a great sounding nice cab that only cost 350 (i got one with no speakers) as opposed to 1200 or more lol....and i see no reason to get a different one.
same with my guitars - i have 3. they're all decent guitars. not the greatest or shiniest out there in the world but they're nice. i put new wiring/pots/pickups in them all that i want and thats that they're my guitars. i dont need anymore lol... i struggle with gas a bit sure but plugging in and playing for awhile usually cures that.

 

[user 85623]

I have tried a few. Felt it sounded artificial though. I thought about getting a LE-Bass pedal that has a 12AX7 tube in it to see if that would work in the FX loop or on the front end. The TT800 does have a slight drive to it, more so after changing the Tung Sol 12AT7 to an RFT 12AT7 and two JAN/Phillips 12AT7 tubes. That took the flatness out of the sound, added some air and a bit more drive. The preamp tube circuits are all cathode follower stages. Not sure which channel I like the best as they both sound really good. To be honest, the 12inch subway cab adds some cone breakup and works with the 5 string bass well. I do not notice its presence with the 4 string as much but I have flat wounds on that bass. It does not punch your pant leg like a 412 cab does, instead, you hit a low E and wait for it, the wall of air will rush after the initial attack hits you. The only song I know on bass is Money by Pink Floyd. I mostly mess around with it and create my own stuff. Still learning the instrument. Never managed to master the slap though. Since I am a guitar player, I use a pick and that works for me.

cool.... im just a big fan of motorhead...and lemmys bass rig and sound ...if i had a bass rig i'd gravitate towards his sound im sure lol