Need help from Mesa Users on deciding on amp...

[armyguyenglish]

I just got out of the Army and back to playing in a band. I've been playing for 8 years (- 3 in the army) and I have never gotten a "the" sound I want. First amp was a Marshall DSL 401, which was a great starter amp, sounds good at pretty much any setting... I want something I have to put time in so I can find "my" sound. Well the DSL crapped out, and had to get a Line six spider II... HORRIBLE amp, but didn't have much money at the time going to college and had to have an amp for shows. Fast forward, I joined the army in 2005, good thing was i was able to up my pedals, and I purchased a Peavey ValveKing 100W head from a friend who had gotten a Road King. The Valveking blows, but is so far the best I've had.

The other day I went looking for Orange dealers here in the great state of Mississippi. I found on their website that there were only two. The first place was a hole in the wall... not going back there. The second place was a great music store, BUT no longer deals with Orange as there was no demand. I had decided I will never again buy gear without trying first, and the Mesa's caught my eye. I am hoping to finally be happy with my tone. The express caught my eye and I'm thinking of ordering the 5:50. Now to my question for those who would know; in my head the tone I want is a mix between "The Mars Volta" as in Deloused in the Comaterium (which is an Orange Amp, same as on "At the Drive In"), "Coheed and Cambria" (Claudio uses Dual Rects, Travis uses Stilettos), and "Incubus" as in Make Yourself (Mike used a Tremoverb in that time period). My personal sound in my band (a three piece, I'm the only guitar) is an cross between the three. I tend to use effects as paint, and never use the same sound(effect wise) twice. I can't describe the sound I want, but I feel with the RIGHT mesa, I will finally achieve it. So what amp could I get a modern heavy gain, but also a very vintage sound at the same time? I refuse to use distortion pedals and only need two channels, clean and dirty. I wish I could describe what is in my head, but alas, I can't. I don't want to be able to do the bands I have listed above, only COMBINE the sounds in to a new sound. The 5:50, ROV, and Ace are all within price range. I do want a combo, as I have knee and back problems due to military past.

 

[VijfZiel]

I haven't heard much of the bands you mentioned, but by the few I've heard, I could recommend you a Mark IV, excellent fx loop, excellent cleans, the heavy tones it can produce are huge, but there are completely diferent to the dual recs, but I think you dont need it too much, I dont like it very much, but I suggest you make some research and hear the amp. The only disadvantage is that its discontinued, so you will have to find one used, there are combo versions, but they are 1x12 but the head isn't too heavy.

 

[Elpelotero]

Hmm...This one can be a bit tricky. I'm not as familiar with the Mars Volta. But as for Incubus and Coheed, it's Dual Recs. Here's the catch though...The Incubus tone on SCIENCE is some of the best Dual Rec tone I've ever heard and it perfectly shows the potential of an old Dual Rec. However, his tone on Make Yourself has much more high mids, which are impossible to get out of a Rectifier, which is all low mids. Mike's Tremoverb was modded by his tech, and he used those hollow PRS guitars to get that airy tone. So a Dual Rec will only get you halfway to Mike's tone...

As for Coheed, their sound is easier to achieve.

A Mark4 will get you a tremendous palette of tones. Fender-like clean, liquid and creamy solos, and tight high gain. This amps has the mids placed up higher than the Rectifier, which allows it to do these sounds. With the EQ out, you can nail the Make Yourself tones. Scoop the mids with the graphic EQ and you have Metallica. BUT, the Mark4 will never achieve the growl of the Rectifier. The lows and mids are simply placed differently.

You've got to try at least one or both of these to truly understand. Then these words will click.

 

[clutch71]

First off thank you for serving our country and welcome to the board!

Couple of thoughts based on your post...Mesa combos are not the lightest pieces of equipment out there. With a knee and back issue, I'd recommend a head and a 2x12. Based on what you described, I'd go for the out of production Tremoverb paired with 2x12 Recto Cab.

2 Channels, Good Reverb, Good Cleans, Heavy High Gain, Versitile in a band situation.

I agree that distortion pedals suck tone...but I do recommend a good OD. There are lots out there and I recommend that you get the amp, take time learning to tweak it to find your sweetspots and then try and add an OD. A lot of professional players and users on this board have found that an OD actually adds tot heir tone pallet. Most guys seem to run the OD with the gain rolled off, tone set about noon and level to parity or max. I have used one with a Tremoverb and they tighten up very nicely.

So for the Mars Volta you could use the blues channel with the gain dialed back with tube rectification to get close to that tone. Modern or Vintage in Silicone Diode with out an OD will get you an Incubus tone, step on the OD and you've tightened the tone up just a little for the Coheed and Cambria.

The ACE and ROV (good substitute for the TOV btw) are great amps and so is the 5:50, but I think you will find it lacking in gain for what your trying to do.

Be patient and take your time. Good Luck.

 

[Jak0lantern01]

Only guitarist in the band? I'd go with a Recto since it's great at filling out the sound. I still have mine, but I'm a recent Stiletto convert since I needed more cut for a two guitar band. I'm not a fan at all of the Express.

 

[Steve P]

The Express amps would be great for your vintage/classic rock tone, but you would need an OD or EQ pedal to achieve your modern metal tones. The players who do mostly modern-style high gain aren't fond of them, but others who do mostly classic rock (or nearly anything else besides numetal) and are willing to use a pedal for modern tones have had more luck with them.

 

[jdurso]

i'd go tremoverb or express BUT with an OD infront. The express can get pretty heavy but for some of that coheed/incubus stuff your going to need that little extra heat an OD provides. Tremoverb though might be your best bet... either way an OD will help you cover the ground you looking to cover. Either that or go 4 channel amp like the roadster and call it a day :wink:

 

[armyguyenglish]

I don't want to have to go through buying a used amp, too much worry; a new, in production model is what i'm looking for. I thought about it all night and I guess the distortion i want would be the sound mix of Eritarka (Mars Volta) and The Crowing (Coheed). The Clean sound I'm looking for would be a mix between Televators (Mars Volta) and Just A Phase (Incubus). If I had a third channel the ability to get the 11AM sound from Incubus would be nice, but I doubt I have the money... anyway; that's the closest I can get to defining the sound I'm looking for. Money wise: I know I can afford the Express 5:50, ACE, and ROV. If I pick the ROV the custom options are pretty much out...
The reason I don't like distortion pedals is because the ones I've had expirence with sound horrible (Marshall Jackhammer/BOSS metalzone/Boss DS-1/visual sound jeckal and hyde, ect.) Never could get a sound I could deal with and amp distortion sounded better on horrible amps. I could see myself using one to get a nasty sound, but even if i used one for a boost i'd be a lot more pedal tapping than what I already do...

 

[jab]

let me say thank you too for serving our country, and welcome to the Boogie Board.

I am not familiar the music you mentioned, but I do have a couple of comments for you to consider:
- a combo is not for back problems. I bought an Ace head and 1 and 2-12 cabs to avoid having to carry around a Mesa combo, and it's better, but still heavy as crap. I lifted an Express 5:50 and 5:25 combo the other day and was rather shocked at the portability and great tone coming out of those.
- don't dismiss the OD. I see you're not afraid of pedals, but it looks like the OD's you've tried have been the tone-sucking pigs they are. I didn't use one for 15 years until I discovered Xotic (and people really seem to like Barber and Fulltone too). That one pedal will be like adding a 3rd channel to your amp because it doesn't mess much with the integrity of the initial Mesa tone, and you could create a clean/crunch/lead scenario pretty easily.
- Road trip it to a Mesa dealer if you can. It's a big investment - I'd take the day and tank(s) of gas (no pun intended with GAS) and see if you can't try out a few with your axe.

 

[fishyfishfish]

For a new amp I would go with a Rectoverb combo, or Dual recto head OR Stiletto.

 

[Dead Moon Rising]

I agree with the people recommending a Tremoverb if you want to go with a Mesa product. a Dual Rec could be good too if you used the Raw mode, but the loops suck *** on the recs, if you run you fx intro the front end it'll be better. maybe a Stiletto?

 

[armyguyenglish]

For a new amp I would go with a Rectoverb combo, or Dual recto head OR Stiletto.

I've been looking at the ACE big time. I wish this site was more cellphone friendly.

 

[Trucker]

I'm new here at "BB" but definately not new to tone. The Mesa "Rect-o-verb" & "Trem-o-Verb" amps are the most versitile amps in the mesa line IMHO. You get:

-Good, clear cleans even at higher volumes ( think "Nashville Twang")
-Good bluesy or "pushed cleans" (think "SRV" "Buddy GUY")
-Real good overdrive tones ( think "G & R" "AC/DC")
-**** good high gain rock (think "Alice in Chains" "STP")
-2 completely separate channels that can be set to taste and selected at will via footswitch.
-Reverb
-FX loop (if your into that sort of thing)

I cant' think of a style of music that this amp can't be adjusted for provided you do your homework and "woodsheding" for the proper settings. I have many amps......Fargen, Fuchs, Soldano, Dr. z, Fender, Matchless, Vox and a few others but my Rect-o-verb see's more action due to it's flexibility. Most of my other amps are one trick pony's BUT they do what they do better than any other.....that's why I bought them...for a specific sound/tone using a specific guitar. The Recto is my "go to" amp for any situation where I need VARIETY Of GOOD USABLE TONES. I could care less about an FX loop.......I only use 3 pedals (modded TS808 from Analogman.com, Fulltone Deja' Vibe and an MXR analog delay) I run my pedals straight into the front of my amps........sounds just fine to my ears. Don't judge an amp by it's FX loop. Did Clapton, Page, Hendrix, SRV, Leslie West, Buddy Guy ,etc....have FX loops on thier amps when all those great tracks and concerts were made ? Keep it simple and your ears will tell you what souds good and makes the hair on your neck stand up.............................Not a serman........just something to think about.

As far as overdrives go.....I have owned several and to me, the Ibanez TS808 reissue modded by Analogman.com (silver mod) is the most musical and most compatible OD I have ever used.

 

[jab]

for what it's worth, I've owned DR and Ace. I play classic/hard rock and I started with the DR and loved how it sounded in the store and my house, but soon realized I was getting lost in the mix in a band situation. There is a certain "fizziness" to the sound that you can't totally dial out. It sounded huge, but not articulate. And I remember last year sitting with the guitar player from Queensryche and we were talking amps, and he said he didn't like DR's because they were too "fizzy". When he said that I knew I wasn't imagining what I was hearing. Great for certain styles of music, but not hard rock.

So I sold it and went with Ace, put in ST450 tubes, a set of Doug's preamp tubes, an eq in loop to sculpt the tone, and this in one fine sounding amp. I went side by side with a Marshall dsl 50 and actually found the distorted tones very similar, it's just Ace has a lot more headroom to add more brutal distortion. Weird thing is, first time I tried an Ace combo I hated it. Sounded thin and brittle. But by the time I switched the tubes, added the eq, figured out which modes to use, it became a totally different beast than the first tone I heard coming out of the combo.

So moral of the story is shop the type of tone you're looking for. As for amp styles, IMHO whereas Stiletto's cut like a knife, DR's bludgeon you over the head with a blunt instrument. Both built like tanks and very high quality. Of course the best answer is get one of each.

 

[jdurso]

I don't want to have to go through buying a used amp, too much worry; a new, in production model is what i'm looking for. I thought about it all night and I guess the distortion i want would be the sound mix of Eritarka (Mars Volta) and The Crowing (Coheed). The Clean sound I'm looking for would be a mix between Televators (Mars Volta) and Just A Phase (Incubus). If I had a third channel the ability to get the 11AM sound from Incubus would be nice, but I doubt I have the money... anyway; that's the closest I can get to defining the sound I'm looking for. Money wise: I know I can afford the Express 5:50, ACE, and ROV. If I pick the ROV the custom options are pretty much out...
The reason I don't like distortion pedals is because the ones I've had expirence with sound horrible (Marshall Jackhammer/BOSS metalzone/Boss DS-1/visual sound jeckal and hyde, ect.) Never could get a sound I could deal with and amp distortion sounded better on horrible amps. I could see myself using one to get a nasty sound, but even if i used one for a boost i'd be a lot more pedal tapping than what I already do...

if your going new and your budget is around the express/stiletto ace range i would take a look at (and i might get flamed for this) the Egnator Tourmaster. I think that amp could work wonders for the sound your describing. It doesn do the super high gain stuff, but it is a high gain amp voiced towards the classic rock/hard rock crowd. it has four channels which will get you the versatility you need. Don't get turned off by a 4 channel amp because you think you need two. The flexibility that extra channel or two gives you is something most people dont think about but its heaven sent. If your near a Guitar Center i would go check out the Tourmaster and read up on it because its a killer amp especially for the price. I would compare it to a more powerful Express 5:50 with an extended range into the higain territory and has a very cool vintage vibe while still sounding modern when you want ti to.

 

[UltraGary]

+ 1 on the Trem-O-Verb. VERY easy amp to dial in a lot of great sounds, not to mention pretty affordable now (by Mesa standards).

I think you'll find getting a OD or Distortion pedal is going to hugely widen your tonal possibilities once you get into using it on the clean channel.

My OD & Compressor literally give me 2 more tonal options on each channel, and really make the clean channel have a wider tone (especially the compressor)

People usually just think "more metal!" when they see these pedals on a board....but I actually get more use out of them getting the sounds less ballsy than my red channel on the T-Verb.

 

[armyguyenglish]

I went to a mesa dealer yesterday and was able to play the express, rov, and stage II deuce side by side. I asked an employee if he knew how a mesa's eq worked since i'm not used to mesa's. He explained you start with everything on noon and if you want bass to cut treb and vice versa. The express lacked in the gain department for me, but man the cleans are awesome. The ROV sounded fizzy and just two dimenstional. IT TOOK ME LESS THAN TWO MINUTES ON THE DEUCE TO FIND THE SOUND I'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR FOR YEARS! I can't believe it. Vintage tube perfectly mixed with crushing dynamic gain. The cleans were warm and begged for dynamic playing. I will be ordering the ace next month and talking my bassist into buying a mesa too. Side note, they are even fixing my marshall so it's job will be back up and ext cab all in one. Guess i'll need to put an 8 ohm speaker in it. If anyone would like to give tips on mesa eq`ing tips, i'm all ears, er eyes i mean.

 

[Jak0lantern01]

Ge the Deuce. It has a bit more low-end than the Ace, a slightly fuller sound. Told you it was an awesome amp

 

[armyguyenglish]

It's been awhile, but I happened to record with a friend who had a Heartbreaker 2.12 combo. It sounded way better than my Peavey Valveking and for the price he was asking I jumped on it. So I played with the Heartbreaker a ton, switched it back to 6L6's and I was always having to EQ it. It just sounded way too "mid-dy" and didn't seem to go into high-gain territory that I wanted. Last month, I was finally able to buy the Stiletto Deuce II head, and got an Addrock Cab with Hellatone speakers off Ebay. It absolutely rocks, but I have a new problem. A friend of mine was able to join my band and become the second guitarist. I mesh with him better than anyone I've ever wrote music with and we had been in a band before I was in the Army. Unfortunately, while I was in the Army, he had come down on bad times and sold his amp. So he uses the Heartbreaker and I use the Stiletto. The Heartbreaker completely cuts through the Stiletto... I guess that why I have read a lot on here where someone looks back and wishes they kept their Heartbreaker and a few even say it's the best Mesa amp ever made. It cuts easily through everything, is there a way I can make it equal with my Stiletto?

I don't know if I have enough posts to post in the Classifieds, but if anyone wanted to do a trade, Heartbreaker for a DR or an Orange amp, I think I would gladly do it.

P.S. I actually have a distortion pedal now too, lol. It's a Russian Big Muff... turn the sustain completely down, flip to my neck pickup, and roll my tone completely down, it's an insane "Queens of Stone Age" tone...

 

[Dolebludger]

Thanks for your service, from a fellow vet.

I know you have said you don't want to buy a used amp, but my fav Mesa has to be bought used because they don't make them anymore. It is the Nomad 55 2X12 combo. Yes, it does have three channels. I used to have a Mark III, and it shared some tone controls between channels, and I never could get it right. After five minutes with the Nomad, I got things set up reasonably. Sold the Mark III, bought the Nomad, and made a profit on the deal!

On the Nomad, each channel has gain, master, presence, treble, mid, and bass pots. And each channel has a "vintage and modern" switch. It also has an overall master volume knob. So when you get the three channels in proper balance you can turn them up or down keeping the relationship. It also has a "solo" function allowing a volume boost, and all these functions are controlled by foot switch. Like on all Mesas, the reverb is rather subdued. It has an FX loop, on which I recommend a graphic EQ and a digital delay (for small rooms) at a minimum.

Mint, used Nomads are not very highly priced. Mine like this was $600. I added a $100 graphic EQ and a delay I already had, and was ready to go. On mine, the cleans give great sounds from jazz to country. The overdrives on ch. 2 & 3 can get a bit "over-distorted" but this can be cleaned up with the EQ or dialing back the gain (of which there is plenty).

Now I don't recommend anybody buy an amp or guitar on which they haven't played, as it might not suit them. But if you should spot a mint used Nomad, don't pass up the chance to give it a try. You might just find yourself "hooked" as I was.

Note: I too have a problem with an ankle from my military past, and you should note that these Mesas are HEAVY -- whether 1X12 or 2X12 combo. Either way, you may need to get some help hauling such a combo to a job.