My Mark IV combo sounds boxy compared to other 1x12" combos

[Noe5]

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Hello, my name is Noe5, definite newbie so bear with me. I have had my Mark IV for over 10 years now, passed down from my Dad. I have a real love/hate relationship with it and feel that I still don't know the amp all that well.
One of my biggest grippes with it is the fact that it sounds incredibly boxy and small. Eventhough it is very loud, it often doesn't have the 3-dimensional effect of filling a room with sound tht I found with other amps. At first, I thought it was because I only had a 1x12" combo so I bought a 1x12" recto cab to put underneath. Eventhough that improved the situation, I am still frustrated to find that on its own, the mark IV combo sounds much smaller than my old tweed 25 watt fender deluxe for instance, eventhough it has a smaller cab! The Fender does not sound thumpier or louder, but more "real" (less solid state sounding?) and it definitely fills the room with sound whereas the Mark IV is quite directional. I have tried to duplicate the Fender's clean tone on the boogie with absolutely no luck.
This makes my Mark IV the best amp to jam with at home, but the worst amp to take out to a jam if another guitar player is going to be there, as pretty much no matter what they use, my amp is going to sound small and boxy. Any ideas what I could be doing wrong?

 

[Tuna141]

All Marks tend to sound a little boxy - some more than others though. That's just part of their tone/voicing. I think this voicing sits nicely in a full band's mix. Some people like it, other don't.

 

[Platypus]

Definitely try a closed back cabinet with it. I couldn't jive with the mark IV combo for the same reasons you listed but running it into a 2x12 or 4x12 makes it sound huge. I also prefer it with an EV12L or Celestion V30, I don't care for the C90.

 

[markbuffyfan]

i have had the celestion 90 models and they are awful boxy compared to the ev200 black shadow IMHO . However the best cure for this without the expense of buying and carrying a 4x12 is get a mic lead and a cannon to to jack adaptor and put intinto your jam bands mixer . through the pa even on low it will sound huge the speaker emulated out is low output but sounds terrific.

 

[Noe5]

Thanks for all your replies - the combo in question has got an original EV in it. I take your point about additional cabs, but even compared to my little Fender 25W 1 x 12" deluxe, it sounds very boxy.
I am wondering if there is anything I should do to improve headroom. For instance, switching from triode to pentode seems to help eventhough I tend to like the triode sound better.

Could it be anything to do with the valve bias? I know that Fender amp power tubes are usually biased towards the lower end of the tube tolerance range and therefore demonstrate fantastic headroom.

I have a little 1 x 12" Vintage 30 recto cab underneath and that helps quit a bit, but because it's underneath (and a lot quieter than the EV), it tends to be drowned out by the EV. I am thinking of swapping speakers and having the Vintage 30 in the open back and the EV in the closed back ext cab. Any comments on why I should/shouldn't do this?

 

[Boogiebabies]

If you want the V30's to be louder, just use a safe mismatch and put it in the 8 Ohm tap. Put the EV in the 4 Ohm to tame
it down a bit and you may be please by the different phasing. I understand your question, but when I use the MK IV EV combo with a 1X12 EV Thiele,
it's louder and broader than a Marshall full stack at half the volume. I've always associated the term boxy with the directional output of the speakers.
Some amps and cabs are very direct in the width, or spread of the tone and seem to have a narrow beam. Some, even through a 1X12 can seem like three dimensional
audio. In some cases it depends on where your standing. The MK series are very direct. Try walking around the amp while playing and see if you can catch where you have
standing waves. It may sound like crap standing straight in front, but bloom a foot to the left or right. I have an amp that sounds like a wall of cabinets through a single 4X12.
Adding another 4X12 with different speakers phases the amp to sound 3D and even bigger. The biggest difference in tone for me was using an isolation riser with the combo's so the room and carpet don't absorb all the frequencies I strive for.

 

[mpos74]

In my opinion the marks sound boxy especially due the EV speaker. I used to like that sound very much, but now I prefer C90 or eminence just because they are not so boxy. EV is very trebley and midrangey speaker. It lacks bottom end. EV cuts very well through band but it does not sound so good miked as the celestions. If it was possible I would play solos on EV and rythms on celestion. It would be great combination.

 

[Noe5]

Interesting infor about the EV spaker, maybe I just need to change it over for something else. Does anyone have any experience with the Neodymium Celestions?
Also, what is the actual difference between a Thiele cab and a standard 1x12" ext cab? Is it just oversized? Or is there more to it?

 

[Tuna141]

Also, what is the actual difference between a Thiele cab and a standard 1x12" ext cab? Is it just oversized? Or is there more to it?

The Mesa Thiele is not really oversized. It is roughly the same size as a standard Mesa 1x12 open-back cab, except that it is slightly deeper (maybe 2-3"). The main difference between the cabs, is that the Thiele has a tuned port which makes it fuller sounding and gives the cab more bass. The Mesa Thiele will make the tone closer to that of a 4x12 closed back cab. These cabs escpecially sound great when used with a Mark series combo amp. The cab gives a combo some nice bass thump and fullness. However, the tone is super, but can be somewhat directional though. I have 3 Thieles and always use them with my Mark combo amps.

I think a Thiele cab may help to cure your combos "boxiness".

 

[Noe5]

Does anyone have any experience with different speakers? I am told the Celestion Blue is a lovely sounding speaker. Also, I am curious about neodymium options since the amp is so heavy (particularly in the hardwood cab).