Multiwatt Dual Rectifier/RoadKing II Modern Mode Comparisons

[dlpasco]

Hey folks,

I have a Multiwatt Dual Rectifier and a Road King II. After having had them for several months, I've come to the following conclusions:

Multiwatt DR:

Modern on Channel 3 is really, really bright (and I love it). I think that this review (note: it's in German) captures the sound really well.

Also, Modern on Channel 3 is slightly brighter than on Channel 2. This may be an imperfection in my particular amp, but it's undeniable.

Road King II:
Modern on Channel 3 of the Road King is noticeably darker than on Channel 3 or Channel 2 of the Multiwatt DR (not horrible, but that midrange brightness just isn't there).

Modern on Channel 4 is DARK. DARK DARK DARK.

Is this based on an old 2 channel rectifier or something or is this some new beast Mesa Boogie created? Can someone tell me how this happened?

I'm not saying it's *bad*...it's brutal as hell. I'm just curious if anyone can point to some historical precedent for it, or if it's just a one-off fluke. The RKII is a high-end model, so my expectation would be that this is not some kind of afterthought.

I'm curious to know what people think.

-Daniel

 

[Bullen]

Well, I´ve never played the RKII, but I can tell you that my Roadster is the same way.

CH3 on the roadster actually seems brighter than ch 4 (either on Modern or Vintage), unless you really crank the treble and presence on ch 4.
I don´t know why Mesa made it this way. I do really like the tones of the Roadster though, but sometimes it´s a bit too dark to cut through the band. I usually have to turn the treble and presence quite high to get that cut that my old 2 ch get with these controls somewhere in the middle.

On my 2ch dual the Modern mode is much brighter than on the Roadster. It seems to be that way with the newer multi watt recto´s aswell.

 

[ryjan]

I believe it's because the Roadster/RKII is less scoopy than the Reborn Rectos. The added midrange makes them sound darker. Nothing that a presence or treble adjustment can't overcome.

 

[Dino.]

Hey folks,

Also, Modern on Channel 3 is slightly brighter than on Channel 2. This may be an imperfection in my particular amp, but it's undeniable.

-Daniel

There's no imperfection in your amp, Daniel.
I thought the same thing with mine.

Apparently, channel 2 and 3 have different presence controls.
The presence control for channel 3 is #590151
The presence control for channel 2 is # 590737

I prefer the presence of channel 3 and often thought about swapping out the #590737 for a #590151 control for channel 2 but I haven't gotten around to it.

I guess Mesa uses different presence controls just to try to offer a variation.
That's my best guess anyway.

 

[dlpasco]

Well, I´ve never played the RKII, but I can tell you that my Roadster is the same way.

CH3 on the roadster actually seems brighter than ch 4 (either on Modern or Vintage), unless you really crank the treble and presence on ch 4.
I don´t know why Mesa made it this way. I do really like the tones of the Roadster though, but sometimes it´s a bit too dark to cut through the band. I usually have to turn the treble and presence quite high to get that cut that my old 2 ch get with these controls somewhere in the middle.

On my 2ch dual the Modern mode is much brighter than on the Roadster. It seems to be that way with the newer multi watt recto´s aswell.

Neat. Which 2ch dual do you have? And do you mean it's brighter than Modern on your Roadster's Channel 3?

As far as the Road King II/Roadster's Channel 4 modern is concerned, I wonder if that hails back to a specific dual rectifier model (tremoverb? I've never played one before so that's totally picked at random) or if it's something entirely new?

 

[Bullen]

I used to have a rev G 2ch Dual recto. Sold it a couple of years ago. I had both the dual and the Roadster for a while. So I did compare them a bit.

I meant that the Modern (CH 2 on the old dual) is brighter than the Modern mode of the Roadster ch 4 (which is optimised for the Modern mode). Much in the same way that the new version is brighter.

Actually the Modern mode on ch 3 of the Roadster, with the presence cranked up a bit, is somewhat similar to my old dual as far as brightness goes, but doesn´t have the aggressive edge that the "real" Modern mode on the dual has because ch 3 is optimised for the Vintage mode.

I´m not knocking the Roadster at all. I love the amp. To me, it´s overall a better and more versatile amp than my old dual, but sometimes I do miss the more aggressive Modern mode of the dual.

I´m actually thinking about getting a used 2ch again, or perhaps one of the new ones.

 

[rocknroll9225]

Is this based on an old 2 channel rectifier or something or is this some new beast Mesa Boogie created? Can someone tell me how this happened?

Yeah, the Road King/Roadster is really dark compared to the regular recto's. If I were going to buy a recto right now I would definitely either get a 2 or 3 channel over the 4 channel heads as I'm a fan of relatively brighter guitar tones, and I could just never get the road king to bite enough for me. But to answer your question, I have the schematics for the Road King, non-multi-watt recto and rev F 2 channel recto, and the road king is built structurally much more like the 3 channel heads than the 2 channel ones. When they switched from 2 to 3 channels, they made some huge inherent changes to the way they implemented the negative feedback loop and the channel cloning, and the road king clearly takes its skeleton from the 3-channel's.

 

[arazm]

so you are saying Dual Recto modern/vintage channel sound brighter than Road King II?

 

[afu]

I think the Road Series are darker for a few reasons. For the Road King, the biggest changes are the changes to the power amp for progressive linkage, the inclusion of several more parts, and differing part values/composition. Those things made the layout of the board different, along with (what I would assume is) allowing more capacitance to leech some high frequency.

The Road preamps are nearly identical to the older Rectos, but there are changes to the power amp, updated power supply/heater supply, and the relays to change resistance values, which need to be connected to the mute bus or given a component to prevent popping.

The Roadster lost the PL, so the daughter board is different, but has an updated main board to allow the resistance changes for the clean modes.

The Reborn seems to be Mesa's willingness to listen to feedback and update the amp for modern purposes. The loop changed, the amp is brighter, the clean is the Lone Star, and a voicing change was made for Raw, which means the value of that circuit for Vintage/Modern would also be slightly different.

The additional circuitry for diode selection on each channel changes that back panel daughter board which includes the loop, and changes the bus to the main board and the relay circuit. I'm also assuming the Clean engages a relay to switch to 100k on the plate. Along with part changes and additional relays, the main board would have been redrawn.

I can't really compare them all and the Reborn schematic is not available, but those things would make several small changes which could ultimately build on each other to make a big difference in the end, apart from conscious circuit design changes to make the Reborn stand on its own as an updated amp.

 

[siggy14]

My RK1 is not dark at all like some roadsters I have played, to me my RK1 is a mix between a dual and a tremoverb with more upper mids then the dual but not as much as the tremoverb.

I have 2 channel dual and a 2 channel triple and my channel 3 on my RK is pretty much identical to the red channel on the 2 channels

 

[dlpasco]

I spent some time with my multiwatt recto yesterday after workings with my jp2c.

The differences between channel 2 and 3 on the recto make sense if you frame it in the same way that Mesa looks at the channels on boogie: clean, rhythm, and lead.

So, for the recto:
Channel 1 is a gorgeous clean.
Channel 2 sounds great with either modern or vintage.
Channel 3 sounds fizzier for rhythm with modern but it completely kills as a soloing channel when set to vintage. It's a really singing lead sound that cuts through the mix beautifully, especially with a touch of delay.

 

[afu]

The old 2 Channel Recto Orange Channel had the same value for the treble cut after the tone stack as Channel 3, but the Presence pot was different. On the Reborn, the Presence pots are ganged to switch value with the mode. Assuming they didn't change this part of the Reborn from the original 3 Channel, a Reborn Channel 3 Vintage would essentially be the same as a 2 Channel Orange Vintage mode in the EQ and volume circuits.