More Mark IV questions before purchase

[Gordman]

As I get closer to buying my first Mesa, which I decided will be a Mark IV, I'm still having trouble deciding on a few things. I've searched the forum here for some answers, and found a little info, but I'm hoping you guys can give me some more definitive opinions, as I won't be able to compare my options with my own ears before I buy. I also understand that these are all very subjective to user preferences.

1. Widebody combo vs. the smaller combo. I assume the widebody has a better bass response, right? But is it significant enough to avoid considering the smaller combo?

2. Black Shadow/Celestion 90-watt speaker vs. Black Shadow/EVM 200-watt. What are the characteristics of each in the open-back cab?

3. Larger transformer in the early models. Does this really make that much of a difference?

Thanks for all your help here!

 

[Boogiebabies]

What transformer is larger?


I prefer the EV. It can take a brutal amount of punishment without getting all mushy. Combo size will make a difference in how it projects, but we all really know that a MK IV is a brutal amp through closed back 1X12's( sweet as well) or 4X12's. I only use it in combo form with the EV when I feel like a more vintage open back sound. It is in most cases it is an incredible amp to begin with. Mine is for 12/93 in the high 6,000's an it utterly amazes me how flexible it is and what amazing tone I get.

 

[Gordman]

What transformer is larger?

Boogiebabies - Well, if that question is coming from you, I assume there's no major known difference, or you'd be quoting me some specs. :wink: I've seen a couple of '90 or '91 Mark IV's for sale that boast about having a larger transformer than the later models, claiming that they're more desireable tonewise. Not sure if they're talking OT or PT, and I honestly don't understand enough about the subject to know how the size affects either one. :? Just hype?

As for cabs and speakers, I do plan on using a closed back 1x12 as an additional or alternate cab to provide that focused punch for heavy stuff. I have a Peavey 112SX with a Vin30 I could use with the combo, and for use alone I could upgrade to a higher-wattage speaker or get a Mesa Thiele/EVM, which I know is the preferred companion to the combo. I'd like the combo alone to have a more vintage sound like you mentioned, and was concerned that the EVM might not be as good as the C90 for that. Between the two cabs, I'm trying to cover a little clean stuff, a little blues, lots of vintage or hard rock (Zep, Aerosmith, AC/DC, VH, STP, Alice In Chains), and a little metal/modern high-gain stuff. The vast majority of playing will be at reasonable basement volume or a bit more when jamming with bass/drums.

Is your Mark IV the smaller cab?

 

[snowman3000]

What transformer is larger?

Boogiebabies - Well, if that question is coming from you, I assume there's no major known difference, or you'd be quoting me some specs. :wink: I've seen a couple of '90 or '91 Mark IV's for sale that boast about having a larger transformer than the later models, claiming that they're more desireable tonewise. Not sure if they're talking OT or PT, and I honestly don't understand enough about the subject to know how the size affects either one. :? Just hype?

I assume you're referring to the Power Transformer size....Well....just to make it simple: the bigger the better. But being honest...the Mark IV that i tried in the Boogie Hollywood Store last week was absolutely amazing. It was a 2005 model. :wink:

 

[Boogiebabies]

I think you got the term " Boasting". I have personally not seen one or can confirm the existence of a larger PT or OT. I will have to look into this further.

My combo is the standard size with the EV-12L Black Shadow. I am seriously biased towards this speaker. The only other Mesa speaker I rally like is the 150 watt MS-12 which is an Eminence. If you are looking to strictly use it as a combo, it will need to be dialed in not to be too harsh or too mushy. This is why I like the EV. It just really seems to allow you to dial in more treble and bass and give a smooth, fat tone. As I mentioned before, it can take a serious beating. You really need to find one and spend an hour with it. There is nothing worse than taking advice from other people and hating it after you shelled out the green. I dropped $ 3900.00 on a Diezel VH-4 and could not stand that muddy hunk. All because it was touted as the flavor of the week and a must have item.

 

[AMG1]

I would agree the wise thing would be to spend some time and try the different sizes and speakers.

I have a widebody w/C-90.

I love the way this sounds. The C-90 seems to color the sound more and is more raggedy sounding in a good way IMO. I also like the low end.

To me the EV was to clear sounding. Just never liked it much.

 

[Gordman]

The pictures of the EV-loaded combos I've seen show a speaker label that indicates Black Shadow, Electrovoice, 200 watts, and Type EVM. I've never seen one that actually says EV-12L on the label. Are we talking about the same speaker?

 

[Boogiebabies]

Yes. Knowing how anal Mesa is about designing around tubes, do we not think that they also include speakers in their design?

 

[AMG1]

Of course they include speakers in the design.

Whats interesting is all the different speakers they've used.

Its even more interesting how divided people can be over what sounds best with a Boogie.

I wonder if some of the speakers that show up in old Boogies were only because of customer insistance or if they were all thought to be good by someone at Mesa?

 

[Boogiebabies]

Randall Smith and Doug West are the guys who make that call.

 

[Gordman]

Yes. Knowing how anal Mesa is about designing around tubes, do we not think that they also include speakers in their design?

I wasn't trying to question Mesa's design choices. I just keep seeing the Mark IV EV speaker referred to here as the EV-12L, yet every EV speaker I've seen pictured in a Mark IV says EVM instead of EV-12L. I thought there might be different EV models used, so I wanted to be sure we were talking about the same speaker. I assume your "Yes" above means they are indeed the same. It's kind of confusing to see references to a model number that doesn't seem to appear anywhere on the EV's Black Shadow OEM label.

 

[axwielding1]

I use 2 thieles with my mark III, and they have the original EV12L's, not re-branded black shadow EV's. They are the same, and sound the same. Mine are well broken in though :wink:
ax. :twisted:

 

[marklyn]

Gordman,

I think there's a real good reason to buy a new one and that's the warranty and customer service. Since you can't play one, read up on what Mesa Boogie says about the differences between the widebody and the shortbody and go with what seems better to you. As to speakers, I've got the EV because that's what came in my Mark IV. I like it but I've been toying with the idea of getting one of the Black Shadow/Celestion 90s since I've been hearing good things about them. You've made it to the point of deciding on a Mark IV. Get one and play it for a while, you'll probably love it and the small differences between speakers and transformers won't really be noticable to you since all you will know is your amp. Good luck and have fun with it!

 

[t0aj15]

IIRC there were two models of the EVM-12 speakers, one was the EVM-12L which was used as a guitar speaker, and the EVM-12S which was used as a woofer in hi/fi speaker cabinets. The EVM-12L's are all the same except that some (like the "Mesa model" Blackshadow) are renamed to suit amp makers. I say "was" because as most of you are aware Electro-Voice no longer makes either version of the EVM-12 speaker.

 

[Boogiebabies]

Yes. Knowing how anal Mesa is about designing around tubes, do we not think that they also include speakers in their design?

I wasn't trying to question Mesa's design choices. I just keep seeing the Mark IV EV speaker referred to here as the EV-12L, yet every EV speaker I've seen pictured in a Mark IV says EVM instead of EV-12L. I thought there might be different EV models used, so I wanted to be sure we were talking about the same speaker. I assume your "Yes" above means they are indeed the same. It's kind of confusing to see references to a model number that doesn't seem to appear anywhere on the EV's Black Shadow OEM label.

After some reasearch, the early MK IV did indeed have a different power transformer. There is no indication that it was any larger than the current one. Also, our opinions are no more than conversation and our good or bad fortune with a particular amp. You really need to find one and sit down with it for an hour or more. I can understand how many tangents are going through your head, but buy the time you have done all of your research you may have talked yourself in or out of your ideal amp. The stock speaker should not be weighed as heavily as a determining factor. It is a superb amp and sounds very good through just about anything.

 

[Boogiebabies]

Here is an early MK IV, or a MK IV A. Notice that the PT is the same size as the MK IV B. It also does not have the satellite send like the MK IV B.


http://cgi.ebay.com/MESA-BOOGIE-MARK-4-MARK-IV-AMP-W-EXT-CAB-FOOTSWITCH_W0QQitemZ7364280665QQcategoryZ23787QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem