More gain from a LoneStar Classic via new tubes?

[FunkyMonkey]

Newb question here, but I wondered if it was possible to get more gain out of my LoneStar Classic by changing the pre-amp tube(s) and what people would recommend? What is the best way to approach doing this?

Sound wise I would love to be able to get 90's Clapton solo tone (i believe he used Soldano SLO-100s) and maybe higher gains than this if possible. You can see what I'm after here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBVB62x2p7o

I know the LSC is not the amp for these sounds, but I do loads of other stuff that this amp is perfect for. Just interested in knowing if there is a way to tweak more out via the tubes, rather than buying a Tubescreamer or something of that ilk.

Cheers for your thoughts!

D

 

[HipKitty]

You could try putting differrent 12ax7a's in. Each manufacturer/brand respond (and sound) differently. Of course, tone/response is very subjective. If you can afford it, maybe a purchase of a few of the brands and compare. I do that with my clients that get the tube "bug" and want to compare tone and response (be it pre-amp or power tubes).

Here is a rough report from my experience and client report on the premium pre's out there:

The Tung Sol 12ax7a has the higher gain and sound great in every amp that I've installed them into. JJ's seem to have a brighter tone, but have the gain you might be looking for (Marshall fanatics seem to love these in). The chinese 12ax7a's from TAD and Groove Tubes are excellent choices in gain as well. The Sovtek's and EH's seem to fall into the utilitarian position (I've been seeing too many microphonic EH's over the last year). The verdict seems to be out on the gold plated pin types.

Of course, I recommend that you purchase your tubes from a reputable dealer and purchase pre-tested tubes only. These things may save you a bit of a headache in the future.

Again, if you can afford, try a cross section of the tubes available. Try them in all of the pre-amp positions as well (even the phase inverter tube).

 

[FunkyMonkey]

Thanks Hipkitty. Is the 12AX7 used as standard in the LSC fairly middle of the road?

D

 

[HipKitty]

I wouldn't exactly call Mesa's 12ax7a's middle of the road. They're certainly better than average, in fact, they do a pretty da** good job.

I believe they're using the chinese made 12ax7a's now. The Spax7a is their "high grade" tube that, in the past, was the "go to" (along with the Groove Tubes) 12ax7a if low noise and low microphonics in high gain amps was required. I've stopped ordering the spax7a's for my high gain clients and been stocking and installing the Tung Sol's or TAD High Grade 7025's (depending on the sound needed) as I've yet to have have any problem with excessive noise and microphonics in the high gain amps. Of course, my supplier pre-tests the tubes and then I test them myself before any installation.

What's nice, if you can afford it, is the ability to try the different (12ax7a or 7025) tubes and taylor your amp to your taste....of course, you may want to thing about your power tubes as well, but that's another story.

 

[Nigel.Wambuto]

I will concur that the Tung-Sol 12AX7 is highest in gain among current production 12XA7s. Latest word from Petaluma is that Boogie will be switching back to a Russian 12AX7 (after a brief fling with Shuguangs) and that this tube is slightly higher in gain that both the Shuguang and earlier 12AX7EH.

 

[FunkyMonkey]

I'm getting some great drive out of the installed valves now but would you recommend 1 or 2 new ones and do they go in just V1 or V2 (or buy two and fill both)?

I'm finding that with drive at 2pm and gain at 3pm on channel two, the thing just gets too muddy unless on bridge pickup. Bass is roled almost right off at voicing is 'normal;, treble at 2pm. Wondering whether I am asking too much of the amp to drive this hard and still get a good tone with the low notes!

D

 

[HipKitty]

FunkyMonkey, if you can afford it, get two and put them both in. Definately one in the v1 location. This amp should "get it" one way or another. Another consideration is to have the amp biased to the output tubes. You'll get better note definition/articulation. Also, what type of output tube are you using? 6l6 or EL34? There is definately a different "feel" and tone between the two types.

 

[FunkyMonkey]

I am using 6l6 stock str-440 power tubes. Thanks for the advice, definetely gonna have a play around. I guess a lot of it is just taking the plunge, I knew half the fun with Mesa is the amount of flexibility.

Eventually I will get the 90's Clapton sound and in a way where the bass is not so wooly.

D

 

[HipKitty]

Those stock STR-440's are pretty good tubes....should be able to get that Clapton tone you want. Have you thought of just having Eric play your rig instead?

 

[FunkyMonkey]

I thought I'd start with getting the tone and then move onto the notes, but yeah that could save me a whole load of time

D

 

[ibanez4life SZ!]

One thing you may want to consider...I've never had experience with a LSC, but this is usually a general statement....if you're going to be experimenting with high gain tubes, you may lose some of the lower gain tones and cleans that are so good on the LSC....it will change them.

Just something to consider

 

[FunkyMonkey]

Thanks - that is a good point.

 

[cant play pool with a rop]

I put Sed =C='s in my Lonestar and am very happy with the gain channel now-finally, the cleans also sound more to my liking. I had GT 6L6 GEs which were decent but they didnt break up the way I like and did'nt help CH2 at all. They had too much sparkle for my style of playing. Don't get me wrong I like a sweet clean, they were just too much.I also tried JJ6V6's which were phenominal for CH2 but severly lacking in the cleans department.

 

[boogiemon]

Newb question here, but I wondered if it was possible to get more gain out of my LoneStar Classic by changing the pre-amp tube(s) and what people would recommend? What is the best way to approach doing this?

Sound wise I would love to be able to get 90's Clapton solo tone (i believe he used Soldano SLO-100s) and maybe higher gains than this if possible. You can see what I'm after here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBVB62x2p7o

I know the LSC is not the amp for these sounds, but I do loads of other stuff that this amp is perfect for. Just interested in knowing if there is a way to tweak more out via the tubes, rather than buying a Tubescreamer or something of that ilk.

Cheers for your thoughts!

D

maybe, but another thing you could try (if you haven't already) it to engage the effects loop & turn the send level up past the midpoint. i've found that this increases the gain on my LSC.

g'luck

 

[FunkyMonkey]

Haven't heard that one, will give it a go

 

[123thefirst]

Another thing to work with is the tone pot on your guitar. It's strange but turning down the level
from say 10 to 6.5 at a high gain setting can often make it sound like you've actually increased the
gain, break up and out-of control feeling of the guitar. It's a good way to get a "browner" tone.

Seems to me that your ear gets somehow tricked at high tone pot settings with tube amps by
letting the very high frequencies mask out the ones that are most effected by gain (the high mids
or low highs I'm guessing)

 

[lyman]

a huge part of clapton's lead tone is that he has an active midrange booster in his guitar. that will give you more gain and singing mid sustain.

 

[FunkyMonkey]

Hi,

I have a Clapton Strat so am familiar with the mid-range boost, it can make the Mesa sound quite muddy especially when you use the neck pick-up, which Clapton uses an awful lot for lead. Infact this happens even without the MRB I'm learning to tame my LSC so hopefully it'll come with time

D

 

[123thefirst]

I know you said that you didn't want to consider pedals, but the Xotic BB Preamp might do wonders for you. It's billed as a distortion pedal and it will do that, but I use it with the gain set to where you get no distortion whatsoever.

What it gives you then is a boost combined with a type of compression. From what I can tell it's actually inverse expansion rather than compression. That means it's much clearer than a typical compressor and you don't lose the punch and kick of the attack. It really makes it feel as if you've boosted the gain quite a bit without getting the raunciness of additional gain.

 

[lyman]

Hi,

I have a Clapton Strat so am familiar with the mid-range boost, it can make the Mesa sound quite muddy especially when you use the neck pick-up, which Clapton uses an awful lot for lead. Infact this happens even without the MRB I'm learning to tame my LSC so hopefully it'll come with time

D

ah, I see you listed it in your signature. sorry, i must not have seen it.