Moen GEC-9 or Rocktron Patchmate Floor????

[Monsta-Tone]

I am looking for a reasonably priced pedal switcher.
I have narrowed it down to basically 2.

Moen GEC-9 Commander
Roctron Patchmate Floor 8

Both are around $300, which is about all I can afford right now.

My needs are:
Silent, fast switching with no lag, drop out, pop, etc.
Fits on a pedal board (no more rack gear for me!)
Easy to use and program
Presets


Here is how I see them.....

Moen Pros:
Looks really easy to program
Relatively small
Buttons are spaced nicely (size 13 feet means I tend to step on too many buttons at once)
Can control up to 3 amp functions

Moen Cons:
No mode to let me turn FX on individually within a preset
Manual and website do not say how the switching is done (FETs, Relays, etc.)
Unknown brand to me
Manual does not say if you can use 2 loops to control amp functions with a TRS jack

Patchmate Pros:
Very versatile
Looks easy to program
Lots of options
Individual footswitch control of FX within presets
Relay switching
Large company, tech support has always contacted me quickly, I can call and talk to a human!

Patchmate Cons:
Barely fits on my board (19" wide)
Buttons are very close together
Manual does not say if you can use 2 loops to control amp functions with a TRS jack



I know there are a lot of other switchers/loopers out there, but these 2 seem to offer the ability to control the most pedals and amp functions for under $400.

Anybody have any experience with either of these or something comparable?

 

[rectifier]

I am in the same boat w you. Yesterday I spoke with a guy on the phone who owned the gec9 he loved it said it was quiet n fast no tone suck. It does not do midi but either does rocktron it cannot send but will receive kinda defeats the purpose of one pedal. Anyway I'm gonna pick up the moen soon for my small rig. I use the Rjm for my bigger rack.
Just setting up a small board for my Mesa royal Atlantic. The moen looks the best for my application. Anything more expensive I'd ve right back to my big rack.

He said the moen is worth every penny. Hope it helps ya.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Right on, thanks!
I ended up getting the Rocktron because it was more readily available and seemed to offer the most flexabillity out of all of the cheaper ones.

It is pretty cool, but I have a ground loop.

If I use my Wah in front of the Patchmate, I have the meanest hum.
This happens with a power supply or battery in the Wah.

There is also a slight pop sound when I switch a distortion pedal into the signal chain.

I'm really thinking I should have gotten the Moen!

 

[r_cod_81]

Just noticed this thread and, while you've made your choice and purchased the Rocktron, here's my experiences with the Moen.

I had a similar quandary to yours about a year ago. I went with the Moen and I love it - the only problem I have is that if you step on a footswitch twice in a row it bypasses the unit. Aside from that it is hugley flexible as the first 6 loops are in series and the last 3 can be wired how you like - it is these that are used for function switching.

In case you do decide to get one eventually (trade in your Rocktron or whatever) I'll address your concerns:

No mode to let me turn FX on individually within a preset

What I do if I want to do this is select it in the preset then have the option turn the pedal itself off manually within the same preset (eg lead boost, delay etc.)


Manual and website do not say how the switching is done (FETs, Relays, etc.)

I'm pretty sure it's relays - you can hear them all clicking off when you apply power to the unit. Switching of presets is utterly noiseless.


Unknown brand to me

Me too - I approached it with some trepidation but it works great! I had some questions before I bought it (through Moen's UK distributor) and recieved very prompt replies. I've never needed customer services as it's worked fine so far (touches head).


Manual does not say if you can use 2 loops to control amp functions with a TRS jack

Do you mean a TRS connector in the amp? If so you can use a Y cable with the mono ends into the Moen's loops and the stereo end into your amp.

Hope that helps you or anyone else considering this great piece of kit!

Another switching option I found was the Carl Martin Combinator or Octaswitch. I bought my Moen just before the latest Octaswitch was released but I think I made the right choice given all the connection options plus tuner out, buffered/ non-buffered in, both 'normally open' and 'normally closed' switching options (VERY useful for Mark series channel switching which was, in the 1980's 'the other way round' from other functions), dual oupts etc, etc. The only other devices that came close to the functionality cost several times more and I was keep to a) avoid MIDI and b) keep costs down.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Hey right on, thanks!

I have not really had a chance to get the Rocktron fully wired into my setup yet.
I changed amps and a few pedals, so my whole setup is pretty sloppy right now!

My goal for this weekend is to get everything wired back up and ready to rock for next Saturday.
Our drummer has been off island for a few weeks, so I haven't been in a hurry.


I noticed in your sig. that you have a Distortion +.
Is there a popping sound when you change presets using the Dist +?
On the Rocktron unit, there is a very slight pop when using higher gain pedals.

 

[r_cod_81]

Is there a popping sound when you change presets using the Dist +?

I don't think so but I do run the Dist+ rather strangely - in the FX loop after a compressor as a lead boost: distortion low and output high. I like the slight change in tone I get which distinguishes it from my rhythm sound.

I also have a noise gate (Boss NS-2) around everything so that may well be masking any noise - I run my studio Pre's gain all the way up. I'll check next time I remember and let you know.

 

[elvis]

The popping is a normal problem with true-bypass loops. If you disconnect the input to a pedal, it floats to a random DC bias point. When you switch the pedal in, then it is connected to whatever else is active, and is almost always at a different DC level. The pop is from the change in DC bias at that moment. All my true bypass loopers have pops.

I also looked at the Loop8 Floor and almost bought one. The size was an issue, but otherwise I thought it looked like a great solution.

The ground loop can be a pain. I have the exact same problem with a Bad Horsie II in front of a GCX. I have not had time to debug it. Do you run your guitar into the Wah and then to the Loop8, or is there something else in front of the wah. The wah may just be getting caught in the ground loop from the other stuff around it. A line transformer like the Ebtech HE-2 might help to stop the GND path between the wah and the other stuff.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

I haven't tried the Patchmate with my new amp yet, Soldano Lucky 13 (at least not to it's fullest capacity).
I've been working a lot and am in the process of recovering a combo cab for the Lucky 13.

With the DC-5b, I would get a ground loop from a few different things:
1 Using a TRS Y cable (for channel select/GEQ), Loop 7 would cause hum if I used it for channel selection
2 Having any pedal in front of the Patchmate would cause hum
3 Using the Buffered input would cause hum, although it was not as bad if I used the Passive output with the Buffered input

My guess was that the input jack, footswitch jack, and Send jack on the amp are all Switchraft 12 series and are directly mounted to the chassis. I've had no hum issues with this amp until now, so I never gave a second thought about isolation washers.


I had to build a Loop in the Lucky 13 when I first got it, so I simply tried it in front of the amp.
As usual (with most amps) some of the FX didn't sound very good, so I just stopped right there.
I will be covering the cabinet today, so it should be all back together this weekend and I can try the Patchmate with it!


Elvis,
Do you think that simply adding a 10M resistor across the relay contacts would help eliminate some of the popping? I do this a lot in channel switching amps with great success.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Right on, thanks!
I ended up getting the Rocktron because it was more readily available and seemed to offer the most flexabillity out of all of the cheaper ones.

It is pretty cool, but I have a ground loop.

If I use my Wah in front of the Patchmate, I have the meanest hum.
This happens with a power supply or battery in the Wah.

There is also a slight pop sound when I switch a distortion pedal into the signal chain.

I'm really thinking I should have gotten the Moen!

I finally got around to putting my pedal board back together. Our drummer has been on the Mainland and I've been studying for my contractor's test, so I haven't really had a chance to get to it.
I bought a couple of the George L's pedalboard kits. I had a Planet Waves one, but the cable is stiff and the connectors are huge.

I discovered that the ground loop was actually interference from the Rocktron power supply!
Before, I had it fastened to the board, just under the wah, which is the 1st thing I plug into.
All of the hum magically goes away when I move the power supply far away from the board.
My 7 year old rocket scientist/guitarist/super hero son (much like Buckaroo Banzai) looks at me and says, "Well, can't we just shield it with some copper tape?" Man I love that kid! :mrgreen:

Anyway.....there is still the popping issue with higher gain pedals, but it's fairly manageable.
Elvis,
Do you think I could place a 10M resistor across the relay contacts (inside the Patchmate) to eliminate the issues caused by floating the inputs on the pedals?

 

[Thewalkindude]

I bought a Patchmate and immediately sold it. It was my first experience with patchbays, but I had problems with it being set out, what I thought, totally illogically.
The input and output on each loop was opposite to the input and output on every stompbox I've ever owned;
I'm not sure what connectors you guys use to link each loop to the next, but I found that even with the smallest patchleads, the cable would curl over and obscure the loop below it. I don't know why the connections to each loop can't be internally wired, and activated by jumper switch or similar;
The output was at the opposite end to Loop 1, so if you wanted to run in a logical sequence you had to run cable right along to the other side of the unit;

All too hard for me - I sold all my Stompboxes, bought a rack processor and a mini-amp gizmo so I can do it all via midi - I'm too old for those shenanigans!

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Yeah, the layout is funny. I was guessing it was all due to trying to keep signal paths to a minimum internally, which makes them longer externally.

I actually bought the Patchmate over the other ones so that I could configure the loops I wanted together both before the amp and in the FX Loop.

I ended up using George L's cables because I can make them as long or short as possible and the connectors are tiny. I originally tried to make all of my own patch cables but that was pretty cumbersome in the end due to the size of the plugs.

 

[Jsiegel]

Thank you to everyone for this thread.

I had the Rocktron Patchmate 8 Floor on an SKB Stage 5 pedal board. Insanely crowded, worked well but used all George L's and Velcro to hold everything down, after a couple years the Velcro started failing, pedals moved, as everyone probably knows the George L's do NOT like movement so I would get a buzz in a loop or one wouldn't work, etc..

Made the decision, all be it an expensive decision, to order an 18" x 36" pedal board from Trailer Trash.

I still used the Rocktron, the George L's but everything is screwed down (used Stompsters).

I wired things a little different. Never had any noise, pops or issues before so I did not expect it when I finished. Your posts helped because the one thing I did differently is put my Cry Baby 835C before the Patchmate input. Big hum.

Then I used two overdrive pedals in loop one, using the active in and out. Big mmmpht noise when selected.

To the posts about the different switchers and some issues you have written about:

Lining up the pedals with the ins and outs seem impossible with how close everything is, but if you use George L's, make sure everything is screwed down but the George L's do work well with this device. You can use all 90's on everything. I drilled down through my board and went under but you can stay on top also like I did with the Stage 5.

The Patchmate works well for me because I use the first 6 loops and use loop 7 & 8 to switch a Remote Loopy in my rack for my delay and pitch shifter.

I haven't had any issues, except for what you guys noted but when I put the Wah AFTER my passive/active out instead of before the passive/active in, it went away. Also the high gain pedals did create that weird sound (mmmmpht) but again, use the different in or out and it goes away.

So I just wanted to say thanks because I got it all wired up, working and all of a sudden had those two issues and as you know, going back through the wiring looking for something that's not clearly showing itself can be mind numbing so when I found your post and saw what you guys did, found and tried, it made things a whole lot easier and everything is good.

I would recommend the Patchmate because it's simple, you can combine loops for programs or use it for 8 individual stomp boxes (I have a Mesa Full Throttle, an MXR Super Badass Custom, an MXR Super Comp and an ISP Decimator in loop one, so if you know you use the same thing together all the time, just put them all in one loop), I have individual pedals in the other 5 loops, including an MXR Talk Box 222 which I go out of one loop's send into a splitter, then out to the talk box and out back into the loop return so that with the talk box on, I still have guitar signal going to the amp, I am an only guitar player in my band, helps not completely cut the guitar out when used.

Like I said earlier, you can use the loops as device switchers for your rack or amp too etc..

Thanks again guys.

Not sure how to post a picture of I would to show you how it is on my board, new to the forum.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Right on! Glad it helped someone.
I'm right back where I started, wondering what to do. I sold the Patchmate because there was a tone suck when I would do certain things.
I used it mainly in the Loop mode, but would set it to Preset mode momentarily during certain songs so that I could make fast changes.
When I would push the button to set it to Preset mode (Function button I think), then my tone would get washed out.
It only did this when the unit was warm. Say after it had been on for a while or if I was playing outside.

Also, the power supply is not shielded very well internally. I found that if I put it too close to signal cables (George L's), I would get an intense hum. The farther away from the cables, the less hum I would get.

All of that, plus the fact that I had been spoiled for years with the delay and reverb spillover from the G-Major made me get rid of it.
I now use a G Major II, GCX, and Ground Control Pro. I'm contemplating getting rid of the GCP and going with a Midi Mate. Mostly because of the size.