MKlll & MKlV feedback

[Nick Athanasatos]

First Time Here, and need advice.
Presently, have the earliest MKlV hardwood Combo,in "virgin" (home use/lo-volume only)condition. I have had this,and the MKlll before it, bought new from Mesa Engineering,when they first came out. I am, despite having one or the other for around 20 years?..no expert. But I have felt that this an amp that can do everything..,but not good enough.. It is a very "processed" sounding amp, and it produces, what can best be described as the"Terminator"sound. I truly wish this was not so.
Originally,I was"born"into guitar playing in an era, where it was possible to have a Gibson Les Paul JR.57'and 4X!2/Marshall( metal face)50 Watt Plexi early on(3 years into playing). And let me assure you, that ,that guitar, into that Amp, sounded (no effects) like" Machine Gun"on Jimi Hendrix's Band of Gypsies. When you hit a note, and it sounds like that,basically it's "noise control". When the volume was backed off, ROCK,tone control,acoustic like. Then one day, the Amp stopped working, so it went to Andre's Repair (N.Y.City). When it came back,no more feed back,no more wild animal,just moderate tame grind. It was ruined,I got rid of the corpse a few years later,and in hind sight, that was the end of me. Anyway...
Whilst in a studio in N.Y. I tried a MKllB which I liked,so I ordered the loaded hardwood version(no EQ) available at that time..the MKllC+. (In those day's you ordered the Amps direct from MESA,and they wrote your name on the chassis)

When it arrived, I found in the box, an amp very different to what I tried in the studio in sound,and model..a MKIII.(not what I ordered). I noticed it had virtually no reverb, which I really wanted then..So I called and complained to Doug West, who I think, took my original order. And he said, this is the replacement, and assured me that this new amp, was just as good.
I never was satisfied and told Doug so. When MKlV came out I contacted Doug West again, who made a special arrangement to sell me this new one" direct", as these were in stores now. So I got rid of the MKlll (brother has it). And still, I am no more ,if not less, satisfied.
Unless there was a real reissue of MKllC, I can't imagine buying another Mesa/Boogie again, like the MKV. The Amps are built great,and the company wants the customer to be happy, but anything short of them calling me, and exchanging this MKlV for what I originally ordered, leaves me unfairly short changed.
So, unless someone at Boogie reads this, and is inclined to send me one they have at home, some kind individual might suggest some sample settings for this MKlV.
In the end, I believe I will get rid of it,none the less. Thanks for you up coming feed backs,and advise.

 

[tony777]

You can still get your hands on a C+, though you can't get a new one.
To me it seems that there is no other way than selling your amps, and buy a used C+.

There are three on ebay US right now.

Good luck

 

[stephen sawall]

Welcome to the forum :mrgreen:

I think getting a non master Marshall amp may be where you really want to go. I like my IV for what it is. But my favorite amps have no master volume or you can bypass it. If you want one that has a lot of voices ~ Fender tweed, English flavor crunch, Texas, etc. go check out a THD Flexi. I recommend a Hot Plate because a lot of the sound comes from the power amp being turn up or the master turned off.

http://www.thdelectronics.com/product_page_flexi50.html

Their are a lot of amps out there.
No reason not to be happy.

What kind of sounds / players are you trying to get from the IV.
Not to many amps can do as many flavors as a IV.
Maybe a II is only thing you want.

I take it you know the V is out. It has a II on it. But I have not tried it. So who knows ?


http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Mark_Series/mark5/mark5.html

 

[Nick Athanasatos]

Thanks for advice.
Tony,I see you have all three MKllC+/MKlll/MKlV . Is the MKllC+ really different(superior)to the other two,or am I misguided in believing so? As I only played a llB for a few hours,long ago,where I was Impressed.
When I spoke to Doug West at MESA he said that the llC sound was highly dependent upon the Sylvania Tube, which ceased production and becoming hard to get, so that prompted the development to MKlll.
This gives me the impression that it was a tonally purer/less processed amp. Though I may be wrong in this assumption.
In light of this,I wonder how the MKllC reacts to poorer replacement tubes?

I must say if the opportunity arose where I could give my MKlV hardwood(loaded/Mint)Combo plus $1000,for a Hardwood MKllC+ Simuclass/Reverb Combo,in nearly as good condition,I'd do it in a minute. Thanks Tony.

Stephen. Very much appreciate your advice.
The handwired 1974X 18 Watt Marshall has tone, but lacks that "pushing it too far/Feeding back" Sound.
The Handwired Plexi head at 100 Watts, might be too much,and was hoping for a 50 watt ,like I used to have(The 50 watt Plexi is a reissue,and not as good).
Even a handwired one to perfection, is compromised by the Tubes today, so a reissue would not come close enough. Maybe I'll go for the 100 watt when I can.

To try and get that "Marshall in a smaller Amp" sound,5 years ago,in my mid-life crisis, I ordered a Victoria Baseman.I specified to "Pete" what I was after(a feedback machine).
What I got was the Buddy Holly sound. So no luck down that route either. But that is a lovely amp which is like having the real thing. But they seem to voice them"less hot" as that is tough on the Amp (and Mr.Bauers lifetime warranty). Still, that's what I ordered...
The delay from pick to Amp response,is hard to ignore for me.

Before I go for a Plexi, I will look at THD,and from sound clips, Mojave Coyote, which sounds like"the one",but you never know.

The sounds I'm after you mentioned.
I guess Fluid/Overtoney..
Guitar Vol. 8
Mick Taylor ("Winter"/"Heartbreaker"/Time waits for no one")
Doors ("Light my Fire")
Santana (Europa)
Guitar Vol. 9
Black Sabbath( Master of Reality)
Guitar Vol.10
Jimi Hendrix("Machine Gun"/Band of Gypsies)
Or, all in one,and favorite, Eric Johnson. I love that guy. What does he use?
Mick Ronson, Robin Trower... So many.

Lastly, Stephen,is this Hot Plate safe for the Amp? Does it not produce an artificial sound?
Many Thanks.

 

[stephen sawall]

The Hot Plate puts no more strain on a amp than a speaker. You are turning up the amp so you do have that wear.
The tone is a little different so you need to fine tune the amp for the setting you have on the Hot Plate. The more attenuate the more compressed it gets. This can be good and bad. For me it is the best way to get power amp roar and control the volume. Yes it is a compromise. It does not sound the same as the amp just turned up. I recommend trying it with your rig to see if gets what you want. Most of the time I use it in the 4/8 settings. This allows me to get the power amp cooking and control the volume a bit. All three of the amps I use a lot without a master are 30 and two 50 watt. I do like more power for the extra bass control with a preamp distortion type amp (master).

I had a II B / C+ / III and still have my IV. I still have some of the old Sylvania tubes. They seem to make any 6L6 amp sound better. What a great tube. It has been some 20 years but the B was a lot different than the C+. Some people prefer this sound. Apples and Oranges. The IV sounds great with the old Sylvania tubes. Much bigger fuller. Does not make it sound like the other Mark amps.

Most of the people you have there are Marshall amps from back in the day. Carlos was using a Mesa Mark I back then I think ?

Eric Johnson I have seen a few times. Always old Marshall's and Fender's on stage.

The 18 watt is cool but did not have the depth, girth and low end of the 50 / 100. That sound is about turn up and getting the power amp going.

Sounds to me like you need to take your guitar and try out some classic amps and the amps that are voiced that way. As time goes by it is getting harder and harder to be able to do this in a lot of places. :mrgreen:

 

[stephen sawall]

His gear is listed here ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Johnson#Guitar_and_equipment

 

[tony777]

Thanks for advice.
Tony,I see you have all three MKllC+/MKlll/MKlV . Is the MKllC+ really different(superior)to the other two,or am I misguided in believing so? As I only played a llB for a few hours,long ago,where I was Impressed.

As the C+ is available second hand so is the IIB, and they are not over the top expensive.

When I spoke to Doug West at MESA he said that the llC sound was highly dependent upon the Sylvania Tube, which ceased production and becoming hard to get, so that prompted the development to MKlll.
This gives me the impression that it was a tonally purer/less processed amp. Though I may be wrong in this assumption.
In light of this,I wonder how the MKllC reacts to poorer replacement tubes?

I use the Sylvania tubes at both my C+ and MKIII, and they sound awesome. But I have no problem in using other brands. My experience is that preamp tubes are more important.
My MKIII has the same OT and PT as my C+, which means that the MKIII isn't as compressed as my MKIV. Both the III and IV have more gain than my C+ but the C+ have enough gain anyway. The lead tone on the C+ is lesser harsh, than both III and IV, but the III sounds way closer to the C+ than the IV.
The Lead Master is different on the C+ vs the III, at the C+ it alters the voice of the amp in addition to change overall volume. At the MKIII it pretty much stays in one voice. (Not talking about Pull Bright).
The thing is that I like them all, and I hope I never need to sell any of them. But if I had to, the simul C+ would be the definite keeper. Between the 60w vs simul C+, to me the simul sounds great doing chuggy metal riff, and lead notes on the same setting, the 60 watter will bite more on the top end. This is absolutely a matter of taste and music style. I play metal tones 99% of the time, and that's why I tweak the amp for that settings and clean comes second. But I solved that in another way, I wired the tone knob at my guitar, so it's only on at the pickup positions I use when I play clean, and the roll it off until I get that fender clean tone I search for, and then having the GEQ always on.

I must say if the opportunity arose where I could give my MKlV hardwood(loaded/Mint)Combo plus $1000,for a Hardwood MKllC+ Simuclass/Reverb Combo,in nearly as good condition,I'd do it in a minute. Thanks Tony.

Yeah, who knows what's gonna happen?

 

[boogiemon]

The mark IV is a versatile but complicated amp: It's not for everyone. Further as with any tube amp but especially boogies, low-volume use just doesn't bring out the "tone". i had a M4 for a while but there are so many settings on them that i couldn't give you the exact ones to try, but generally w/the mark series i suggest: very low bass: 1.0, very low presence: 2.0. On the M4, mid shift/boost ( i forget where this is). If you have the C90 version, try plugging into an EV. This makes a huge difference in the overall quality of the sound. Another tone hint for *any* boogie: put some tung-sol re-issues into the 1st & 2nd preamp stages: These are really sweet tubes that have the effect of very smooth feedback in high gain amps. The M4 can roar but it takes a lot of tweaking. If you can't/don't want to deal w/it. The Lonestar classic is actually an improved Mark II. (Randall says this in of of the online articles.) The LSC doesn't have the gain that the M4 does, but it has enough & the clean channel is phenomenal. Further, it's a *much* simpler amp & sounds quite good even at low volumes. If you do go this route be sure to check into the "reeder mod".

good luck

 

[Nick Athanasatos]

DIMITRI. Thanks for email but I don't know how to respond via Webmaster? Can you send me your email in similar message please?This iMac is our first computer.

BOOGIEMON Thanks.I had considered changing pre-amp tubes, but when I asked Doug West he said, "no need".
So I figured, this is such a processed amp, such a subtlety would have little effect.
I think it a good idea now. Would the GT USA Mullard (expected to be made),a good alternative?
I must admit a lack of patience for 25 MKlV controls...
The MKlV has the EV in it.
I thought some appropriate Celestion might be an improvement, but I'd rather not to interchange stuff.
Lonestar (and another small Class A Boogie) sounded interesting in past,as this lV sounds best with Tweed/ClassA switch on. But I reasoned,if Boogies"Best" doesn't do,why bother.
I'm gonna try one, I think they are easy to find for Demo. Thanks Again.

TONY. Thanks for comparison of the Amps. From this I see that the llC+ is a good bet to go for "blind" ,if I have a chance to find a Simu/Hardwood Combo,in nice shape.
Since this was Boogies most loved amp,it makes sense making a reissue of these. Those had that Class A switch didn't they? Thanks this is a good reference.

STEPHEN Some people prefer MKllB? Apples and Oranges? That didn't occur to me. Thanks.
I've never been into pedals,it's always direct, as I've felt they are like, something to be dependent on."Oh no,I can play without my pedal".
That Chet Atkins & Eric Johnson video on YouTube "Somebody loves me now" (Recommended) .
Many would find it difficult to play with that dry PAF/Amp sound Mr.Atkins has,but that is the real basic tone of the thing.
But with this computer,I see video samples of guys playing units,and that Ecoplex is nice..
To get the best reverb, it was my idea that we should buy an unconsecrated church, instead of a house.

It never occurred to me to try the MKl. I will( but God does it have to be at Guitar Center...)
It seems that the Butler unit is a main thing to Eric Johnson's sound.
Thanks Again.Im gonna look for a Non-Master small Amp,though a Marshall hand wired Plexi head is some thing to add too.
Whew!

Best Wishes

 

[stephen sawall]

I have a lot of pedals.
But I do not use them much.

I know people who swear by the Mark IIB and do not like the amps after that came after that.

....Myself I like all the Mark amps I have played for what they are.
After checking out the manual .... I think the Mark V maybe perfect for you (and me). Go read what Doug West said about the II and IV in the manual. It was very interesting.

People I have respect for said it does the vintage British crunch thing very well. It also can be set up for 10/45/90 watts. So it may do a vintage Marshall low powered sound you like.

Who knows ?

 

[stephen sawall]

http://www.mediafire.com/?zny4wmg0zom