Mk. III Loop send level - SO CONFUSED!!!

[camsna]

I need to know - for sure - if my Mk. III operates at line or instrument level.

I called Boogie - they said that it's nominal -10 dBV. So that's instrument level. But that the volume acts as something as a send level as well. The Mk. III manual also says this:
The maximum signal strength obtainable is around 0.6 volts RMS, or about the same as a guitar pickup.

But it clips the CRAP out of my instrument level gear. Also - when putting instrument level gear in the loop, I lose a TON of my volume. The best I can tell, instrument level (-10 dBV) is about 0.3 volts RMS. So 0.6 volts, like the manual says, should be, like, -4 or -5 dBV.

So. What the hell? I'm so confused! Whatever the level REALLY is, is there any way to INCREASE it to the proper +4 dBu line level? Is there a way to MEASURE this level so I know what it really is?

Please. Boogiebabies. Nomad. Monsta. Help a brotha out!

 

[edgecrusher]

I don't know any of the technicalities of it, but I did notice that when I put my delay pedal in the loop of my Mark III, if the master volume is below 2, I get a volume drop when I switch on the pedal, but if its right at 2 or higher, there is no volume loss. I'm not sure if the other volume knobs affect the signal, but I know that the master volume (not the lead master) does.

What kind of equipment are you running in the loop?

 

[bloodspoint]

-10dbv is line level. Instrument leve is ordinarily defined as -8dbv. So if something is looking for -10 and gets -8, I can see where it might overdrive, at least a little.

 

[robredo_mattila]

Slightly OT: Is the loop Parallel or Series?

 

[MrMarkIII]

Volume 1 and the Lead Master affect the effect send level. This is in the manual. The Mark III manual also discusses the signal strength of, and a resistor mod for, the effects loop.

 

[CoG]

That's weird, because I have tried all sorts of stuff from early-80s Ibanez pedals up to brand new TC stuff in the loops on my Marks and (somewhat surprisingly, to be honest) have never had a problem with either clipping or volume matching.

I'm thinking that the unit you're trying to use in the loop may be a bigger problem than the MkIII's level. Are you trying to use an old fx processor meant to be used as part of a studio rack as a guitar fx, by chance...?

 

[Restless Rocks]

CoG is right on here and I too have never had a problem with the Mk FX loop level. It is a series loop and like the manual says puts out a signal roughly equal to a guitar pickup when your master is at sensible levels of course.

 

[camsna]

Fellas. Thanks for your help so far. But I KNOW all this stuff already. I've spent 2 days reading and re-reading and pulling my hair out trying to figure this out.

My problem is THIS - some of the gear that I need is +4, line level gear designed to work with +4, line level loops. I don't have (and prolly won't have) any pedals in the loop. Just not my bag.

But as it is now, I'm kind of an in-betweener. Certainly significantly hotter than 'guitar pickup' but still short of true line level. And the mod discussed in the Mk. III manual is to make the loop weaker, not stronger.

Thanks again for your help, guys.

 

[CoG]

You could just stick an EQ pedal in there, leave it flat, and boost the level... I have to do that sometimes to cut the output of my rec pre going to my crappy cheap I/O device.

 

[MrMarkIII]

How's about a direct box? They convert low-level guitar signals to line-level, don't they?
Some are adjustable for those "in-between" levels.
There's only 143 of 'em on eBay. Act now!