Mesa tubes or others? Full re-tube, what to buy?

[rick16v]

Hello all. I bought my mark v second hand. Some days I like it, others it really frustrates me. I dont know what state the tubes are in so I will replace them all. Do you guys recommend Mesa branded or something else? What should I buy? Any help appreciated.

 

[Elpelotero]

What kind of tone are you seeking, and what parts about it frustrate you? How are you dialing in the amp?

 

[TheArriaga88]

Your best bet is to hit the web and start reading. There are tons of forums out there with all kinds of opinions.
FWIW ive heard plenty good things about the Tung-Sol Reissue 12ax7 for v1, low noise high gain, also the mullard RI, but from what ive read those tend to be a little noisier.

as for the power section, the consensus seems to be Winged C SED Svetlana. Although they are getting quite a bit expensive for my taste.

Its a really subjective topic and sometimes youre better off (granted you can afford to)
trying a bunch of different tubes in different positions and listening to what works best for you, not joe schmo or randy rockstar

 

[rick16v]

I'm trying to get channel 2 where I want it. I'm after an open, warm, moderately aggressive overdrive with good clarity. The nearest I've got is the settings below, using a Timmy to push the front end and a modified Ge-7 in the loop to add some low frequency punch and dial out a nasal upper mid.



Its still fairly sterile sounding though. There is a lack of warmth, depth and harmonic richness.

 

[rick16v]

Thanks for your replies. I rolled tubes to get where I am. I have a mix of NOS pre amp tubes including Mullards and a couple of others. They sound better than the mesa branded it came with, but I don't know how good those were or if I'm honest how good these are either. With no tube tester, all tubes are an unknown quantity unless I buy new.

Are any of you guys happy with the stock, mesa branded tubes?

 

[crane]

There is a lack of warmth, depth and harmonic richness.

Try MkI mode (thick switch off, bass all the way down)

 

[fr0sty]

What do you have the amp's master volume set to? I use basically the same settings you show there, but my channel volume is set between 10:00 and 12:00. Global master around 10:00 also. I have touch less bass and a touch more mids. For me, moderate volume is the key to getting crunch mode to open up.

My settings are for humbuckers.

 

[rick16v]

Hey thank you. My volumes are both set slightly lower than yours, it starts to get loud pretty quickly. Cranking it helps, but I can't get near power amp distortion. Just too loud. I think low volume is part of the problem, but dropping the power to 10watts makes it a bit too compressed and lifeless so I find I have to keep it on 45. What tubes are you using?

 

[fr0sty]

I use stock mesa 6l6 and preamp tubes. When going for real low volumes, I like 10 watt mode, variac power and more gain and treble. That's usually my tv volume go to on ch 2. The variac really thickens it up.

The key to that open sound though, in my opinion, is a certain amount of volume. For me, I don't worry about power amp distortion. The V is designed to get it's gain from the preamp. I start with the volume I want with gain I desire by working the channel and master volumes the tweaking the preamp for the gain. The hardest gain tones for me with the V are the ones where the in the room volume is between tv volumes and nicely loud (but not crazy). I think you are working that same bermuda triangle zone too

 

[Archlute75]

Besides needing some volume to open up, do you ever play live? I've found that the same tones I wouldn't really like at home just really sound great in a live mix. It's the pronounced midrange.

 

[crane]

Besides needing some volume to open up, do you ever play live? I've found that the same tones I wouldn't really like at home just really sound great in a live mix. It's the pronounced midrange.

Big +1
Great home tones rarely find their place in a band/live situation. One word : mids !

 

[Mungo Zen]

I have used a selection of different pre-amp tubes and have found that the new in box quality and life span for most brands are pretty much the same. I personally have only seen a handful of pre-amp tubes go south and never in my Mark V.

I have also retubed the power section with Mesa branded 6L6 and EL-34 tubes and have been quite comfortable with the performance.

That is in answer to your original question.

I am linking a post to how I build up a tone with the Mark V from a previous thread. This is by no means the be all end all, but some thoughts on how resetting the tone and starting from scratch can help.

http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=67616&start=15#p463874

Specifically I would turn off the EQ until you are super close to a good tone, and then decide if you want to add it in for a hint of color. I have found people with EQ tend to make very exaggerated shapes (like a super dipped V for metal) when a subtler approach can find that nice 3D space to build within. As well, the EQ can cause a perceived jump in volume when it is kicked in. By keeping it off, you can perhaps increase the amp volume a bit.

 

[Hypnotoad696]

JJ's for preamp, grooves for the power. can't go wrong.

 

[rick16v]

Thank you for all your input, I appreciate it. I jam with my mates but most of my playing is at loud bedroom volume.

You all make good points, Mungo Zen (if that is your real name...) I'm going to try your method and see how it works.

 

[andretoscano]

My opinion is to for the MESA branded tubes.

If you think about it, different branded tubes sound different because of different (small or large) electrical properties, like biasing of the current passing through the tube grid and stuff like that.

I'd rather have my Mark V behave as close as possible to the original manufacturer's specification, and then add booster and distortion pedals upfront whenever I feel the need to push the sound a little further.
In practice, I'm probably doing the same thing (electrically speaking). But I find it more fun to push the amp with external sources like pedals and get different sounds that way, instead of going through the hassle of exchanging tubes, and eventually have my Mark V in need of service because of internal inconsistencies.

These are just my two cents on this.
Others will probably advise you differently.


Best regards!
André

 

[Monstercastle]

I may be in the minority on this, but I'm tired of playing the tube swap game. I bought spare set of tubes for my Mark V:25 from Mesa just to have a set. I have a good selection of JJ, Mullard, TungSol, Chinese, and Sovtek new production tubes in my stash from playing that game with my other amps, and I'm not going to do this with the Mark. I like how it sounds as is. I'd rather spend time playing through, rather than with this amp.

 

[rick16v]

You all made good points. I reverted back to the original tubes (I was using a mix of NOS, condition unknown), followed the set up guide, put it on 90 watts and importantly cranked it a bit. It sounded incredible.

Sadly its just too loud for bedroom use. On 10 watts with both volumes low, it doesn't do it any justice. I tried an attenuator (bad cat unleash) but that robbed tone.

I need a practice amp for general use!

 

[Xulidian]

You all made good points. I reverted back to the original tubes (I was using a mix of NOS, condition unknown), followed the set up guide, put it on 90 watts and importantly cranked it a bit. It sounded incredible.

Sadly its just too loud for bedroom use. On 10 watts with both volumes low, it doesn't do it any justice. I tried an attenuator (bad cat unleash) but that robbed tone.

I need a practice amp for general use!

Yes. Very similar to my experience also. Except the tubes, stock tubes started sounding anemic even at "proper" volumes. I just retubed it for the first time with Eurtobes "high gain" selection... and had a chance to open the amp up a bit...

holy ****.

:shock: :twisted:

That said I think an Axe-FX is in my future for late night work. But the Mark V will always be a part of my sound. It's so freaking awesome.

 

[screamingdaisy]

I'm trying to get channel 2 where I want it. I'm after an open, warm, moderately aggressive overdrive with good clarity. The nearest I've got is the settings below, using a Timmy to push the front end and a modified Ge-7 in the loop to add some low frequency punch and dial out a nasal upper mid.



Its still fairly sterile sounding though. There is a lack of warmth, depth and harmonic richness.

I'm going to point out that you're complaining about a nasal upper mid and you're using outboard effects to add bottom when you have the amp dialled in nasally with the bass turned down.

If warm, deep and harmonically rich are your goals then you'll want to bring up the mids and bass.

And if you're in your bedroom... 10w with variac.

 

[xyrium]

I say, stick a nice delay pedal in the FX loop, and use the Output volume control as your master. This gives me a wider usable range of volume. I also wouldn't waste your time trying to get a distorted tone out of the amplifier section unless you're playing this at a club. Set the channel masters at 9oclock or so, and the Output volume is then comfortable to use. The gain/distortion in the preamp of the MkV is delicious, and totally 3 dimensional.

This said, I play LPs, with an SD Distortion and JB pups in the bridge, with SD Jazz pups in the neck. Though it's a fairly boring setup, I use the Edge mode in Ch2, and love the tone I get. It borders on sweet, clear, glassy single coil tones. However, the strings still feel soft, slinky, and chewy.

Anyway, use the preamp to your advantage, use the treble knob to give you some added gain above 12oclock as well.

Edit: FWIW, 16 Ohm cabs never seemed to play well with this amp, for me. I think the amp likes high current situations, including 4 Ohms, though my current 2x12 comes out to something like 7.5 Ohms in resistance (V30 and Creamback in parallel).