Mesa Triple Recto Issue : Whistles

[SpaseMoonkey]

Hello everyone.

After a long time of dreaming of having a Mesa I finally found one used at a local shop. I cranked it at the store no issues nothing. Came home rocked out a few months without a problem. Now I have run into a massive problem and I'm not sure what could be wrong in the least.

I have blown 2 fuses, before they blew it made a horrible feedback sound. After the 2nd one I watched all my tubes warm up seen a recto tube wasn't really glowing so I replaced it. Kicked the amp on and it played but after around 10m it started to crackle/pop with a whistle/whining sound faintly when you have the guitar plugged in but volume pots off.

So I just received an order today from Mesa, I replaced all of the recto tubes and the preamp tubes. I kicked it on and sure enough I heard a whistle and I just turned it back off not wanting to chance a blown fuse again

Also I tried 3 different guitar and 3 different cables just incase it was that.

Any clue as to what could be wrong?

- Travis S.

 

[YellowJacket]

Have you called Mesa about this? My first guess would be 'tubes'. You changed the preamp tubes, power tubes, and rectifier tubes? You don't have the gain buried by accident? You checked all your leads to they are probably plugged in correctly.

Hmm, blown fuse might be the sign of a bigger problem. I don't know much about this but maybe you blew a tube when the first fuse blew and the tubes took out a screen grid resistor? The feedback (microphonics) as well as popping and crackling are usually pretty indicative of tube trouble.

 

[SpaseMoonkey]

I have not contacted Mesa since I just got the tubes in about an hour before that post. I changed the Preamp and Recto Tubes to all Mesa standard tubes. I did as you said, I actually pulled the tubes back out put some electronic cleaner on them dried them off and put them back in. The power cable also seemed kind of loose instead of nice and snug so I swapped it out as well.

I don't run my gain maxed I run maybe 80% and so I tossed it on the clean channel and it plays just fine. I kicked on channel 2 and 3. Right now I'm not getting any issues right now. Kinda scares me, that it works. Which you may be right something wasn't placed correctly.

Thank you for all your help YellowJacket!

 

[YellowJacket]

Running the gain 80% sounds pretty high. What is that in 'Clock position'? (like 3:00 or 3:30?)
Are you running the amp at low volumes or are you playing a single coil guitar or a guitar with weak pickups?

I have a 2 channel Dual and I run the gain at 12:00 - 1:00 so 50% to 55% for rhythm on the red channel / modern mode. For lead playing, I'll put it up somewhat over that but I don't see the need to bury the gain. Using too much gain can cause the 12AX7 in the v1 position (preamp tube) to go microphonic fairly quickly. I hope it keeps working fine!

 

[UnderJollyRoger]

You haven't changed the powertubes yet ? Probably worth a try ...
But yes, playing with the gain more or less maxed out could cause some problems. Do you play in modern mode ?

 

[SpaseMoonkey]

@ YellowJacket

Settings -
Channel 3: Presence 5:30 , Gain 3:30 , Bass 11:30 , Mid 12:00 , Treble 1:30 - Modern
Channel 2: Presence 1:00 , Gain 1:30 , Bass 12:00 , Mid 7:00 , Treble 1:00 - Modern

Guitars -
Dean with EMG 81/85 , Stock Les Paul / Explorer.

My volume is typically low so I don't wake people at night but during the day its right when you get it to open up some headroom.

I never knew that about the v1 going out faster because of the gain. Which would explain why the clean channel never gives me a problem at all. So I'll drop that Channel 3 gain to like a 2:30 and just up my treble to 2:00 see where that gets me.

@ UnderJollyRoger - Yeah that will be when I get some more money because I know all tubes can really make it happen I just tried to get the ones that last the longest first. I also know the power tubes have been replaced before I bought it because they are 6L6s in it. That why I'm changing them last. Because I had no clue how old any of them are.

Thanks again all!

 

[noodles]

Channel 3: Presence 5:30 , Gain 3:30 , Bass 11:30 , Mid 12:00 , Treble 1:30 - Modern

You have the gain cranked and the presence dimed? On channel three? :shock:

Did you read the part of the manual that tells you this creates all sorts of microphonic feedback? Seriously, this is most likely your problem. I typically run with the presence around 10:00 and the gain around 12:30, then toss a tube screamer out front as a boost.

 

[UnderJollyRoger]

Channel 3: Presence 5:30 , Gain 3:30 , Bass 11:30 , Mid 12:00 , Treble 1:30 - Modern

You have the gain cranked and the presence dimed? On channel three? :shock:

Did you read the part of the manual that tells you this creates all sorts of microphonic feedback? Seriously, this is most likely your problem. I typically run with the presence around 10:00 and the gain around 12:30, then toss a tube screamer out front as a boost.

+1

While I run my Presence and Treble at probably 2:00 (I like it when it bites hehe), I have my Gain set at about 12:30, which works fine, even at higher volumes.

The above settings are bound to cause problems ...

 

[SpaseMoonkey]

CHANNEL 3: Sample Setting #3 TITLE: THE END OF
Presence 3:00 - 5:00 , Gain 3:00 , Bass 1:00 , Mid 11:00 , Treble 12:30 - Modern

Thats a preset from the manual for channel 3. I'm not far off thats why I didn't think it was an issue.

As for tossing the tube screamer in front I've wanted to do this just to tighten it up. Been thinking a Maxon or an Ibanez 808.

 

[noodles]

CHANNEL 3: Sample Setting #3 TITLE: THE END OF
Presence 3:00 - 5:00 , Gain 3:00 , Bass 1:00 , Mid 11:00 , Treble 12:30 - Modern

Thats a preset from the manual for channel 3. I'm not far off thats why I didn't think it was an issue.

This manual, on page 18?

http://www.mesaboogie.com/manuals/3chRecto.pdf

You're reading it wrong, that's vintage mode. Those settings just won't work in modern, which is why the manual also says this:

NOTE: Due to the Rectos’ extreme gain potential, the highest regions of the GAIN Control may possibly push the pre-amp tubes past what they can handle, producing microphonic squealing. While we screen and test the tubes your amplifier was shipped with and the tubes in your amp passed our rigourous test, we can’t predict how the tubes will respond over time exposed to extreme gain settings. Your tubes are warranted for a period of 6 months under normal use, but you can save yourself the present and future inconvenience of having to deal with annoying microphonic tube problems by simply using a little common sense...Don’t turn the Gain all the way up!

If you must for a specific part or at very low volumes, back down the TREBLE and PRESENCE Controls. Your Recto was designed to provide amazing gain and tone at less than extreme settings removing the need for you to crank everything all the way up. If you are not able to achieve the sound you want at sensible settings on any or all of the controls, your problem may lie elsewhere in the signal chain, i.e. pick-ups, cabinetry, processing etc. Keep in mind you can always call on one of our product specialist Monday through Thursday and seek some advice should you find yourself struggling to get the sound you want.

To me, it sounds like microphonic feedback is exactly what you are experiencing. The good news is that, more than likely, nothing is wrong with your amp. Flip to Vintage mode with those settings, and the whistling sound should go away.

 

[SpaseMoonkey]

Oooo.. I thought since it was to the right it was meant modern since I've seen some to the left as well.

Thanks for clearing that up.

edit: Noodles much thanks that ended it. I was worried because before it would do it with no input thats why I changed the tubes. I just ran it quite hard with it at around 12:00 volume gain and that just as its said in the manual on vintage it sounds great.

Hate to be a noob for this since, I just switched from using solid state amps with a pod. But what could I throw in front of it to give it that Cannibal Corpse or even a Nevermore tone. The nice thick sound but yet tight as can be. Because they have extremely high, highs when they play or is that all in the mixing?

 

[noodles]

Using a boost in front of a Recto is a must. Pick up a tube screamer, set it to gain off, tone around 10:00, and volume to unity (same volume with the pedal on or off). Then, run Ch3/Modern, presence 9:30, bass 10:00, mid 11:00, treble 12:30, gain 1:00. That should get you in the same ballpark, and you can tweak from there. It is definitely the tube screamer that is imparting the "sizzle" that you hear on those recordings.

 

[YellowJacket]

Oooo.. I thought since it was to the right it was meant modern since I've seen some to the left as well.

Thanks for clearing that up.

edit: Noodles much thanks that ended it. I was worried because before it would do it with no input thats why I changed the tubes. I just ran it quite hard with it at around 12:00 volume gain and that just as its said in the manual on vintage it sounds great.

Hate to be a noob for this since, I just switched from using solid state amps with a pod. But what could I throw in front of it to give it that Cannibal Corpse or even a Nevermore tone. The nice thick sound but yet tight as can be. Because they have extremely high, highs when they play or is that all in the mixing?

Well, a Dual Recto is more of a Rock / Numetal amp than a Metal amp. My friend runs some unconventional settings to get those heavier tones. He basically zeros the treble, and cranks the presence and mids. (the mids are dimed for sure and I think he adds presence to taste) I think everything else is pretty normal though. His tone actually sounds fantastic even if the settings make no sense. It 'may' work for you as well. The most typical thing to do, however, is to throw a tube screamer in front of the amp. Typically, guys run the gain at zero and crank the volume to use a 'clean' boost.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgGnWufCjso

And THAT is kind of how it sounds. It is obviously brighter and more compressed with more pick attack. The Dual / (triple) gets REALLY mean when it is boosted.


Oh, remind me what speakers you have in your cab. I hear a lot of BROOTZ guys run a combination of Celestion v30s and Celestion G12k 100s with the K100s adding that top end slice you are talking about.

Best of luck, and don't waste too much money chasing tone!

 

[SpaseMoonkey]

@ noodles - Then I was right when I argued with a guy at a local store that their mesa dual didn't sound right, it was really muddy I asked if a tube screamer would work and they flat out are like no. I watch this one guy on youtube demo amps all day long, I just checked his signal chain and your right. He is rather simple guitar -> maxon od808 -> amp. And I looked into a video of cannibal corpse talking about their rigs, he runs a Boss MT-2 Keeley Mod in front of the rig and a ISP Decimator. So I think I shall look into the ISP Decimator and a tube screamer of some sort.

@ YellowJacket - The cab itself is a 4x12 Marshall 1960s Lead slant cab. It has Celestion G12T in it. I've had a friend eye balling it for quite some time. I'm tempted to make him an offer and get a 4x12 mesa recto cab.

Yeah thats why I always had a pod or a boss gt series, so I can play till i got what I wanted. But honestly after switching to tubes I can't use them anymore it doesn't sound right to me. I think I'm going to take noodles advice and look into a tube screamer to boost it up a bit.

 

[YellowJacket]

@ YellowJacket - The cab itself is a 4x12 Marshall 1960s Lead slant cab. It has Celestion G12T in it. I've had a friend eye balling it for quite some time. I'm tempted to make him an offer and get a 4x12 mesa recto cab.

The Marshall 1960 Lead a cab is very different sort of a tone from the Mesa Rectocab. G12T 75s are far more scooped with a lot less midrange. The highs are scratchy and the tone overall is very rough, in a good way. The Rectocab is much smoother with more mids and definitely higher highs. The Stiletto cab has more mids yet again but the highs aren't as defined.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f22Nsx6pHp8

This should show you the difference.

I find the recto cab has 'sag' or is looser sounding while the Stiletto cab is tighter. I still say go with a speaker mix. I like v30s + c90s but I think a v30 + G12T 57 or a v30 plus G12k 100 would be in the ballpark for what you want. Mills Acoustics makes awesome cabs too. If you don't need a 4 x 12, their Mach212B is awesome sounding, more than loud enough for outdoor shows, and it sounds great even at low volumes. I definitely recommend it.

http://millsacoustics.com/models.html