Mesa power tube color grading system.

[joegold]

Someone on a forum, possibly this one, posted a comparison of Groove Tubes numbering system and Mesa's color system.

Mesa Scale crossed to Groove Tubes scale
Red............................4
Yellow........................4
Green........................5
Gray..........................5
Blue...........................6
White.........................6

The order is from earliest break-up (top) to most headroom (bottom).

But, I just got back from a local store and a sales guy tried to tell me that Mesa "White" tubes were lower on the scale than "Blue". He didn't seem too sure though.

Does anybody know here *for sure* (no guesses please) if the list above is in the 100% correct order or not?
If not, then what is the correct order, and what Mesa color would have the most possible headroom?

If the order *is* correct then does this mean that "White" tubes would have just a little bit more headroom than "Blue" tubes, or are they equal like the GT #6's?

Thanks.

 

[NoGlassNoClass]

...If the order *is* correct then does this mean that "White" tubes would have just a little bit more headroom than "Blue" tubes, or are they equal like the GT #6's?

Thanks.

The order is correct. The "white" tubes will have a SLIGHT increase in headroom, but to hear any difference you would have to play at almost full vol or use some type of attenuator. You will notice more of a difference among different brands of tubes than among different color Mesas, with JJ and SED (used to be Svetlana) having the greatest apparent headroom among current-production tubes.

 

[joegold]

The order is correct. The "white" tubes will have a SLIGHT increase in headroom,

Thanks.

but to hear any difference you would have to play at almost full vol or use some type of attenuator.

You will notice more of a difference among different brands of tubes than among different color Mesas, with JJ and SED (used to be Svetlana) having the greatest apparent headroom among current-production tubes.

Well I notice a difference in my Simul-Satellite between Mesa tubes of the same type but with different colors. The Simul-Class amps are designed so that the outer pair of tubes are always breaking-up a bit when using "mid-range" tubes (GT #5's for instance, or Mesa "Greens"). When I play jazz with the dark sound I like to use (ala Bickert/Martino/Metheny), even at moderate volumes this little bit of "fur" that is on *everything* is really annoying. You won't notice it on a brighter pop/R&B oriented rhythm guitar sound, but for dark jazz it's a drag, IMO.

I had been using a quad of STR 430's, a pair of Reds and a pair of Greens for a while. Before that I had a matched quad of Winged C's from the tubestore.com all with the same "Perfect Pair" number, 24. Other mid-range matched tubes I had bought included some EH, some earlier Svetlanas, etc. All of these tubes gave a harsh/edgey jazz sound even at low volumes. Brighter sounds were OK, but the dark jazz thing just wasn't happening.

I just put a quad of STR 454's [Mesa's Winged C's, discontinued by Mesa sadly...get 'em while you can...(or just order some Winged C's from the tubestore.com for a lot less money)] with a Blue rating. Finally, after many years, this amp sounds like I remember it sounding when I bought it. I can even use the outer pair alone (in "Class A" mode) and still get a nice clean sound for jazz, at low volumes. I can only conclude that the extra headroom these tubes provide was just enough to clean up the amp for this jazz sound that I like to use.

[I think the Satellite came with the old Coke-bottle Chinese 6l6's when I bought it circa 1993. I'm guessing they had a Blue rating though. Then for a few years I had to use Mesa 5881's. They sounded OK, but not great. But ever since then I've been having trouble getting a jazz sound out of this amp. I owned a MKIV for a while and tried all of the newer tubes mentioned above in it as well and I still had trouble getting this sound, even from the MKIV.]

Someone told me years ago that Mesa's coloring scheme just had to do with the matching process and that the colors had nothing at all to do with the headroom characteristics of the tubes. I worked under that assumption for many years, otherwise I would never have put any "Reds" in this amp, unless I was doing a rock gig. Now I know (finally) that medium rated tubes (Mesa's Greens and Greys, GT's 4's and 5's) break-up too early in this amp (for me) especially with a bassy sound. I'll be buying tubes that are geared for more headroom (Mesa Blues and Whites, GT #6 and maybe even #7, tubestore.com PP #'s 28-32, etc.) from now on I think.

The downside is that the higher-headroom tubes will run hotter and won't last as long. Time will tell if this will be a big issue for me.