Mesa MarkV / Saturation 'mod'

[Wayno]

Great to see this thread still catching people's eye. Just saw it referenced over on a different forum too. Helps to prove the AT7 works as described for sure!

 

[Markageddon]

Yep and perhaps another tribute to the V, and the genius behind it: - 10 years this amp has been out, and its still shocking people with new depths of coolness and utterly ripping tone..

 

[Wayno]

:evil: :evil: :evil:

 

[sherrillsml]

Sorry guys but I am a little confused. I see posts referencing tubes V6 and V7 as 12AT7 candidates. Obviously those indicating V7 have to be my MarkV:90. I have an AT7 in V4 that I am happy with so my first question is there a consensus on using an AT7 in V6 or V7 on the MarkV:90?

Secondly, I purchased my MarkV:90 new in 2010 and at least with mine I get a much less "fizzy" sound by hard bypassing the loop. Do you think I am doing something wrong or was this an issue inherent on the early models? It doesn't matter if I have anything actually in the loop or not.

 

[Markageddon]

I don't remember V6 on the V being anything that made me want to keep it there. It think it caused less gain, but didn't have the effect that V7 (Phase inverter) did, IIRC V7 or not at all, for me as far as swapping out beyond the V4 slot swap goes.
V7 made everything seem richer and more 3D sounding.
Same as V6 on the V25/V35.

But if you look back, Apeman's first work here was V6 (Page 1) and he had it as a cure all for the 'FX LOOP On/Bypassed' tone difference.
Might be worth a read for you.

 

[dlpasco]

Secondly, I purchased my MarkV:90 new in 2010 and at least with mine I get a much less "fizzy" sound by hard bypassing the loop. Do you think I am doing something wrong or was this an issue inherent on the early models? It doesn't matter if I have anything actually in the loop or not.

I've definitely found that the Mark V can suffer from tone suck with the fx loop engaged and spent quite awhile using the slave out to drive my effects through some floor monitors.

I haven't noticed it as a problem since I switched to using 12AT7s as described in this thread. I have no idea why it helps, but it does.

 

[Markageddon]

Thats the thing: Theres zero risk of technical foreknowledge corrupting experience via expectation.
Its an objective thing that works for all (After some dialling relearning for you new fav tones)
Whether or not you can name resistors on sight or if you're the least technical guy on the block: It works the same.
The proof very much being in the pudding.

 

[JD1965]

Well, I did it Saturday - the Jan Phillips AT7 in V6 & V4.

The results?

A noticeable difference in smoothness to the gain on Channel 3.

Not 'night and day' for me but a more useable channel.

I don't use that channel for searing metal or thrash, don't really play that style of music. Instead, I use #3 as my designated 'lead saturation' channel. I know the Mark I mode in Channel 2 would be ideal to capture the 'Santana tone' but I use channel 2 for my medium gain/grit rock sound.

So I decided to go with #3 to get my 'Carlos' on and the 'mod' was a help!

 

[Markageddon]

It affects dialling potential with gain and therein lays the night and day part of the act. If you're keeping it bare bones and low key gainwise, its definitely the smoothness you'd notice for real. And the capacity for more bass before flub etc is still handy even at near clean.
Cross genre/style/gain level appeal: Another sign that its just an objectively good mod.

 

[bandit2013]

Great to see this thread still catching people's eye. Just saw it referenced over on a different forum too. Helps to prove the AT7 works as described for sure!

I have been sharing this thread with others in the Mesa boogie fan club on Facebook. It is good to see this thread is still growing and many already have been sharing this to others as well.

 

[motown]

Hi everyone, long time viewer and first time post-er.

Did the Sat Mod of V1 tungsol, V2 & V6 Jan Phillips AT7 and I can confirm what most peeps have been saying. My Mark V:35 has gone from a great amp to a weapon! One point that most people posted on here was the way in which you'll need to get a bit wild with your EQ and they were right!

Anyways, just wanted to say thanks to everyone that posted their results and that this has changed my amp for the better!

 

[Markageddon]

You're welcome..! Yeah it really opens up the possibilities.
Absolutely fire breathing. And the low gain dialling also just sounds so much sweeter and more vintagey. It re-writes the book, or at least its like amazing new chapters in your favourite book. All good, none of the bad. The 1st AT7'd V:25 still is going like a dream after two plus years of heavy usage. Havent yet had to tubeswap/replace anything, nothings failed. My friend's 35 done not long after then is still walking tall too. So you can definitely sit back and enjoy knowing that it was a good and safe move..!

 

[Wayno]

Fire breathing for sure :twisted: just wish I had more time to play the thing!

 

[Markageddon]

Quite a thing to miss/look forward to.
Its one of those rare things in life that rarely disapppoints when you get round to it:
Even accounting for the hype/expectation that your mind builds when of it when you don't get the chance for a bit.

 

[user 83127]

I am actually curious as to what years your amps were manufactured. I recently purchased a used Mark v 90 that had a manufacture date of 2016. I have never noticed the icepick highs (I did used to own a Studio Preamp and that unit DID have icepick highs). I further did the tube rolling thing with the 12at7 in v-4, v-6, and v-7(janphillips 12at7wc), and what I got was in v-4 I lost some gain from channel 2 crunch. I also got channel 3 IIc+ and markIV sound alike except more gain on IV(lost the unique character of Mark iv and it just became another slightly pushed version of the IIC+....however here was the kicker.....I lost extreme mode as a pleasant sounding channel.....so v-4, down to two useable modes on chan3 but they essentially sound the same).....v-6, not much to recommend it to me, lost the beauty of the v-4 mod on channel 3 and now both IIc+ and IV sound the same, but I did get extreme mode back and the gain was back in crunch.) V-7, got the difference back between IIc+ and IV, have the gain back on crunch, and have extreme mode working, but gave the overall amp a brighter character on all channels that was not particularly pleasant and defeated the bright switch on channel 3.....so back to all stock, and have all 3 channels back working properly....with the differences between markiv and IIc+ and extreme... I guess my question is this, as in reading the thread I noticed that Mesa DID an update sometime around 2012.....did Mesa further update the amp after that (and did this further update negate the necessity of the 12at7 switch, cause I am not getting it......I will point out that I have 2 of the janphillips12at7's but did not try replacing more than 1 at a time, maybe if someone with a newer amp could tell me is there a point in going further, I am not really unhappy with the amp, but am always amenable to improvements if warranted)

 

[user 83127]

Feel free to mention any thoughts or comments you have on my earlier posting but have kind of answered my own question. I went and found a youtube posting of someone that has done the at7 mod to v-4 then played some Metallica, and for the life of me, with my amp set the same way I cannot find a discernible difference between the way his sounds and the way mine sounds set up the same. I am going to assume that whatever makes that mod sound good for other amps is not the same for mine(some things line up but not others, and i so missed mark iv mode that losing it for a slightly better iic+ isn't worth it, and when I switch off of mark iv the thinner iic+ or enhanced extreme are the directions I want to go in....my amp presently has iic+ mode....heavy, but sonically thinner than other two modes......mark iv...totally different gain structure...much hotter...fuller.....more modern sounding gain that mark iic+, and extreme mode that is again the iic+ gain sound but frequencies are greatly enhanced, much fuller.....definitely the iic+ gain and not the iv gain, plus more treble and bass...really punchy...almost too much for chords). That is all the observations i have.

 

[Markageddon]

IIC+ sounds less like an thinness to me (As thinness usually suggests 'abscence of something') but its like the mids are much more 'upstairs' and are louder. Hear you the IV/Extreme settings. Remember Its not just the swapmod by itself, but in how you apply the new dialling capabilities.
Bass at 12 o'clock can be done in high gain mode with it for example, especially if you use 2'oclock or above on Treble..Really brings it to IIC+'s low end.

Which vid were you comparing to?

 

[user 83127]

The vid I was comparing it too was something like Metallica at7.....it was a whole bunch of Metallica riffs done with the at7 mod(person said they used the at7 in v-4 and v-7). I actually can use my bass at 12:00, mine does not flub out until around 1-2:00(I have even found a use for the flub tone). When I say there is a thinness in the iic+ I am not saying that channel is lacking. I am saying that the iv and extreme modes are so dense that they become too much for certain types of playing. So when I find them too "Saturated/dense" I can switch to the iic+ mode for a "thinner" sound, just my term, but less dense, certainly not lacking in any way, just there are more appropriate choices for certain sounds. Chording seems better in the iic+ mode while certain chords seem overdone in other modes. I do get what you are saying about the at7 mod making your amps more useable and making tone(pre) adjustments more doable.....I just don't think my amp is acting like yours. And while I did like the "JP2C" tone in at7 at v-4, it was not worth losing the mark iv tone or the use of extreme mode(which definitely happened to me). I guess I am one of the few that either actually likes the amp as is "or" Mesa applied some fix that made mine work differently(and i am not discounting the cabs I use, it might all be cabs.....I use a Marshall 1960 A&B stack with G12T-75's, and I am VERY happy with my (according to some) crap speakers). As I said, I did used to have a Studio Preamp and it did have the "icepick" highs, so it is not like I don't understand the reference.

 

[Markageddon]

Ah mines 2010/11ish.

The speakers do impact it. V30s would typically bring it to the forefront.

 

[APEMAN]

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