Mesa Mark V 35 loudness level

[satchfrk]

Hi,
This is my first post here! I've always been a big Boogie fan because most of my guitar heroes use Boogie amps. I'm looking forward to being a part of this forum going forward...

I have a question regarding the loudness of the Mesa Mark V:35 vs :25 amps. Even though the V:35 has 2 additional EL84 power tubes, is the difference in output volume just a function of 10W? I understand that there will be "more low end and punch" but is this amp just going to be a tad bit louder than the :25? I play in a progressive metal band and borrowed a Mark V 25 to try out in a rehearsal. It struggled to keep up volume wise with the rest of my band. I was mainly using Channel 2, Mark IIC+ mode with the gain at about 1'o clock and bass at 11'o clock. The EQ was set up in a V shape similar to Petrucci's settings in Mesa's promo video. The tone was there but I needed it to be a tad bit louder.

My main rig is an Axe Fx II with the Matrix GT1000 power amp going into a Mesa vertical 2x12 cab. I'm able to get plenty of volume with that setup.

If I were to get the Mark V 35, would that make up the necessary volume? I was also looking into the Victory V30 which has 2x6L6 tubes and produces an output of 42W on the clean channel and 37W on the drive channel.

 

[Dreamtheaterrules]

There is a significant volume reduction when using a V curve as extreme as JP does. IMO, it works better on the big V than the smaller ones because it's got the horsepower to compensate. On the V25, Pull the mids up some on the EQ. It will be louder AND will (ducking) sound better for most of us. And will cut better in a band. He sets it down on that bottom line. I have it about half way between the bottom and the middle. That control is VERY sensitive through there. Move it slowing and in small increments, and you'll find what you like, and more volume.

IMHO, YMMV, Consult your physician for erections lasting over 4 hours.

 

[Rectifried]

While I do not have a V35 to compare with, I can offer the following.

I have a V25 originally just bought to be used for recording but now find myself in a band and one of the things I stumbled over was adjusting the levels on my G Major 2 in the fx loop. If you are using anything with adjustable levels in your loop (your axe fx?) you need to make sure you get them set to unity (compare volumes with the loop plugged in and unplugged). You might be losing some volume there.

I was running out of headroom on the clean channel in our last rehearsal but discovered when I got home that my levels for the G Major were not optimal. Tonight I will see if that makes a difference.

 

[Nicklotsaguitars]

Should be able to get plenty of volume out of a well EQ'd 35watt amp.
That said, I can't see there being a huge perceived difference in volume between the 25 and 35 models. It's something like 3db difference between a 100watt Marshall and a 50watt.

What does govern volume more than wattage is efficiency. An efficient 5watt amp will kill an inefficient, more powerful amp for perceived volume. Which explains why valve amps are louder than most transistor amps of the same power rating. Valve circuits are all pretty much based on those old RCA designs. Like speakers, the V30 sounds louder than the G12-75 because it's a more efficient speaker. 101db vs 97db if memory serves.
I built an 18watter years back. Took great pains to make sure it was pretty flat in it's eq. Because I wanted to get the sounds I needed from pedals. I was playing in a cover band at the time and needed as many different sounds as songs in the setlist.
First gig with it was open air in a pub beer garden. On the back of a lorry trailer.
1000watt PA. 400watt peavey bass amp. Drummer hitting an un-mic'd Gretsch kit from the 40's (every drum was enormous). Turned my 18watter up to six. It did the job fine.

Good article on watts and decibels here

http://www.300guitars.com/articles/amplifier-loudness-watts-and-decibels/

 

[elvis]

When you talk about power (Watts) and perceived loudness, you MUST talk about frequency, which nobody does.

The vast majority of power in audio amps is consumed driving frequencies below 500Hz. This is why bass amps need 10X the power of guitar amps.

If you try to get 250Hz to sound loud in your band, you need a 100W-150W amp. If you want 1kHz to sound loud, you need 20W. This is why Dreamtheaterrules' point is right on the money. The 750Hz slider is a power-to-volume control. The Human ear hears 1kHz much more than other frequencies. If you want to cut through, that's where to do it.

 

[satchfrk]

Thanks for all the info guys. I guess I need to try it again and ease up on cutting 750Hz. However to elvis's point, I do like bumping up the 80 and 240 Hz sliders because I feel like that really brings in the low end in a way that you can't do with the preamp section. Especially on the Mark IIC+ mode, setting the bass above 11 o'clock makes the tone more flubby when the gain is up high.

So it seems like going to the Mark V :35 isn't going to be a big step up power wise. I might be better off trying to run my :25 into the Matrix GT1000 and going out to my 2x12 cab. At club gigging levels, I don't really know if I'll be able to tell the difference between the EL84 power tubes vs solid state.

 

[MBJunkie]

Welcome to the forum satchfrk!

I agree with some posters mentioning that you probably didn't have the MV:25 set optimally to cut through while playing with a progressive metal band.
Yes, the setting of the mid slider on the 5 band EQ can be set too low so that your sound disappears in a mix or set too high such that your sound is much louder, but maybe not to your liking style wise. Secondly, where did you have the "Mid Tone Control Knob Set" when you were playing the 25? If it was set low, you scooped the mids in the preamp tone section and further scooped them more with the mid slider of the GEQ. I strongly encourage you to experiment with the Mid Tone knob set higher with and without the GEQ, and then experiment with the mid slider of the GEQ set somewhere between the low and mid lines. Also, be sure to bring down that Bass EQ knob low, in fact very low as the gain goes up to avoid flub. Use your ears to dial this in....not your eyes!
Another thing you might try is setting Ch2 to Extreme Mode. Some progressive metal players love this mode.

All that said, I disagree with some of the posters suggesting the MV:35 not likely to have a noticeable difference volume wise. I haven't even played the MV:35 yet, but am sure that it would have more volume and headroom when set to 35w than the 25 offerings. The 35w also offers the footswitchable solo boost feature which I find very useful in live situations with the Mesas that I own offering this feature.

Just my opinion, and of course, the best thing would be to compare the 25 vs 35 in person if at all possible.

Best of luck to you!

 

[J.J]

The V25 will not be able to deliver 25 watts of continuous power. Like the other Mesa 25watt EL84 amps the dyna watt circuit allows short peaks to about 25 watts. If you were to hold a power chord the output power drops back to around 15 watts after a short time. The V35 as far as I know doesn't use dyna watt and so can deliver twice as much power as the v25 in that situation.

Double the power doesn't give double the volume, but it would have to be noticeably louder.

 

[MBJunkie]

I had a play through today with the V:35 combo and was very impressed with it!

In fact, so much so that I did some further research and what I found out is as follows:
1. The V:35 does use "Dyna Watt Power" when set to 35w or 25w in both channels, but not when set to 10w.
2. I don't know about how much "continuous power" is available in this amp, but what I can say is that it can be set very loud and sound great in any mode!
3. I really love the sound offerings in the very compact and relatively light weight combo amp. I think Mesa nailed it on this one in the 112 combo format for sure!
4. Personally, I feel the V:35 sounds bigger than the V:25 even in the 25W setting, but that could just be that I played the 112 combo version (MB nailed it on this one)! Of course the V:25 isn't offered in a combo...so not a true comparison.
5. How much louder is the V:35 vs V:25? I don't know, nor do I really care. What I do know is the V:35 combo sounds fantastic, has plenty of clean headroom, and when set to 35w definitely has more clean headroom than the V:25 if that is an important attribute to anybody other than myself.

Anyway, I hope to add a V:35 combo to my herd soon. It was fun to play and truly sounded great!! :mrgreen: