Mesa Dual Rectifier, not having the "Rectifier" sound in it.

[Andre2k]

Hello
I recently I bought a Mesa Dual Rectifier and I have been experimenting with it to get a good Death Metal sound, even bought a Maxon OD808 to boost it, but still sounds like crap.
The Clean channel sounds beautiful though, and when recorded It was the cleanest sound I've ever heard.
But the Channel 3 with the Modern setting on sounds like ****, excuse me for the language, but It's true.
I cant get the good Rectifier sound out of it, It's not tight, just moshy.
I recorded it, and It sounded like chaos. I had Gain about 01.00 o'clock and Treble at 02.00 o'clock.

I recently tried an Stiletto in a Music shop 4 hours from my living place, and the sound was tight, and it sounded awesome.
And those stiletto's bring the british sound, and the rectifier should be "darker" and more heavy when the settings are correct.

May this has something to do that I am running it through an Marshall 2x12 1936 Lead cabinet? Because It is having a real big impact on the sound.

Thanks in advance, Andre

 

[screamingdaisy]

Does the 1936 lead have G12T-75s in it?

I'm not a big fan of G12T-75s and Rectos, although I have heard good recordings made with them they don't produce what I would call the "Recto" sound, which is a set of V30s... preferably in a Recto 4x12.

What pickups are in your guitar?

Try the following;

Gain 12:00
Treb 1:00
Mids 11:00 (or 1:00... adding mids makes the amp stiffer, removing them makes it have a bit more of a 3D response)
Bass 10:00
Pres 12:00
Channel master 10:00

Master output to taste, although the amp won't start to sound like a "Rectifier" until you have it up around 10:00 or more.

If you're using and EMG 81, up the bass on the amp to 12:00. If you're using low output passives, up the gain to 1:00. If you're using bassy pickups, consider dropping the bass to 9:00.

OD
Overdrive 9:00 (or off)
Tone 10:00
Balance 12:00 (or to taste)


Beyond that (and I don't want to sound insulting), but it may just take some time to get used to playing a Recto. I'm not sure what amp you came from, but if you're used to a tighter amp then playing a Recto can be a bit of a struggle as you have to learn how to control the amp's response with your pick attack. It's not as compressed as most people assume, and if you're not a particularly tight or consistent player it can get really sloppy.

 

[94Tremoverb]

It's the cabinet.

But even through the right one, a Rectifier is never going to be as tight as a Stiletto - it's just not meant to be.

 

[ryjan]

What guitar are you using?
What pickups?
What are your settings?
Whe need data!

 

[Andre2k]

@screamingdaisy - Thanks for the answer! I am going to give those a try later on

for the following questions:

What guitar are you using?
It's an Gibson Explorer 7 String Low Down Rocker

What pickups?
A high-output EMG 81-7 in the bridge position and a EMG 707 in the neck position

What are your settings?
Channel 3 Modern - Bold - Diode - 6l6
Presence: 01.00
Gain: 01.00
Bass: 12.00
Mid: 10.00
Treble: 01.00

Thanks, Andre

 

[glassjaw7]

The cab is part of the equation, but not your biggest problem IMO. Rectos can actually sound decent with 75s. You should try putting some KT77s in the power section. (run in EL34 mode)

This gets the bias up where it should be and makes a world of difference. Also, the Modern mode sounds awful until the amp is opened up quite a bit. Modern with low to moderate volume, in my experience at least, has sounded like ****. I also run GZ34 rectifier tubes which have a tighter response than the 5U4s, but still have that recto sag and "give". And my amp was modded by Dave Friedman. Lots of work to make it sound the way I wanted, but now it's the best recto I've ever heard or played.

 

[Andre2k]

Glassjaw7, thanks for the answer! really appreaciate it!

 

[glassjaw7]

Glassjaw7, thanks for the answer! really appreaciate it!

No problem. Just to clarify, the Mesa cabs will sound better with your amp, but I think a tube change makes the biggest improvement. EL34s sound great and will bias hotter than stock 6l6s, but KT77s have the tightness and edge of the 34s, and the bigger bottom end of the 6l6s. Perfect IMO.

 

[b0nkersx]

It's the cabinet.

But even through the right one, a Rectifier is never going to be as tight as a Stiletto - it's just not meant to be.

+1! Definitely the cabinet and speakers. you can get the Recto to a good amount of tightness with an OD808 and proper cab, but as 94Trem said, it'll never be a Stiletto.

Here's a guy who dials in sick sounding Recto tones and posts settings. Note in the Roadster and two Dual Recto vids, he's using an OD808, but he isn't in the Road King. Try some of his settings and see how you like them. All of his amps are stock.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy4r046l-Sw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfahRmsLfJU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyRRfaqhY5g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_61tE7aTwU

Replace the cabinet before you go switching around any power tubes, as power tubes don't fundamentally change the voicing of a Recto, they just color it differently.

 

[fluff191]

My favorite tone with my Recto so far has been 75's in a Mesa cab. Seriously awesome.

 

[YellowJacket]

My 2 Cents:

Bare Knuckle Painkiller Pickups. This will get you a much more clear chainsaw type tone with loads of wide articulation and pinch harmonics.

If you are going to get a cab, I'd recommend a Mills Acoustics Mach212B or Afterburner 4 x 12. Either one will be much tighter and less muddy sounding, which is what it sounds like you are after. A duet of g12T -75s have a lot of cone crunch so once you turn them up a bit, you'll start to get a lot of colour from them. Add that with a high amount of distortion (boosted high out EMG is NUTS) and mud is what you get.

If you want a looser saggier tone that sounds really BIG the Mesa 4 x 12 Rectocab will deliver that. One member here has two 4 x 12s loaded with v30s and c90s in an X pattern. He loves this speaker combination for heavy stuff. He plays the modern post hardcore metal stuff which does require some pretty aggressive tones.

 

[b0nkersx]

I'd recommend a Mills Acoustics Mach212B or Afterburner 4 x 12.

+100000000000000000000000

 

[volatileNoise]

On top of the Cab, and the settings being less than desirable (IMHO having mids below 12 on a Recto is a waste of time)

But if the OD808 is anything like the Maxon OD-9 that I just tried out, I have to say they are pretty **** house too.

The OD-9 is in no way, shape, or form - usable as a transparent boost for the preamp stage. May as well sell the amp and get a solid state, those that think these pedals work - sorry to say, you are tone deaf...

Get a proper cab man, it is half your problem with the sound.

 

[b0nkersx]

On top of the Cab, and the settings being less than desirable (IMHO having mids below 12 on a Recto is a waste of time)

The OD-9 is in no way, shape, or form - usable as a transparent boost for the preamp stage. May as well sell the amp and get a solid state, those that think these pedals work - sorry to say, you are tone deaf...

That's not extremely pretentious or anything. Please sniff all of my corks to make sure they're just the way you like them.

*********gery aside, the OD-9 and OD808 were never supposed to be transparent.

 

[Melodyman]

Hello
I recently I bought a Mesa Dual Rectifier and I have been experimenting with it to get a good Death Metal sound, even bought a Maxon OD808 to boost it, but still sounds like crap.
The Clean channel sounds beautiful though, and when recorded It was the cleanest sound I've ever heard.
But the Channel 3 with the Modern setting on sounds like sh!t, excuse me for the language, but It's true.
I cant get the good Rectifier sound out of it, It's not tight, just moshy.
I recorded it, and It sounded like chaos. I had Gain about 01.00 o'clock and Treble at 02.00 o'clock.

I recently tried an Stiletto in a Music shop 4 hours from my living place, and the sound was tight, and it sounded awesome.
And those stiletto's bring the british sound, and the rectifier should be "darker" and more heavy when the settings are correct.

May this has something to do that I am running it through an Marshall 2x12 1936 Lead cabinet? Because It is having a real big impact on the sound.

Thanks in advance, Andre

Boost it with a Boss Metal Zone, instant death metal tone seriously.

 

[Melodyman]

On top of the Cab, and the settings being less than desirable (IMHO having mids below 12 on a Recto is a waste of time)

But if the OD808 is anything like the Maxon OD-9 that I just tried out, I have to say they are pretty sh!t house too.

The OD-9 is in no way, shape, or form - usable as a transparent boost for the preamp stage. May as well sell the amp and get a solid state, those that think these pedals work - sorry to say, you are tone deaf...

Get a proper cab man, it is half your problem with the sound.

Recto's love boosts/overdrives, it's just another option. Coloring the tone might be the intention in addition to providing a boost to the signal.

In fact OD-9 boosted Recto tones can be found on some pretty popular albums.

 

[ryjan]

On top of the Cab, and the settings being less than desirable (IMHO having mids below 12 on a Recto is a waste of time)

But if the OD808 is anything like the Maxon OD-9 that I just tried out, I have to say they are pretty sh!t house too.

The OD-9 is in no way, shape, or form - usable as a transparent boost for the preamp stage. May as well sell the amp and get a solid state, those that think these pedals work - sorry to say, you are tone deaf...

Get a proper cab man, it is half your problem with the sound.

That's a little harsh but I agree. Putting an OD in front of a high gain amp doesn't make it tight. It makes it thin and solid state sounding, at least to my ears. You want a tight amp? Tighten up your playing.

 

[b0nkersx]

That's a little harsh but I agree. Putting an OD in front of a high gain amp doesn't make it tight. It makes it thin and solid state sounding, at least to my ears. You want a tight amp? Tighten up your playing.

You're right. Jeff Loomis, the guitarists in Killswitch Engage (and almost every metal band in the past 15 years), Mark Tremonti, Adam Jones, and everybody who has ever boosted a Rectifier, 5150, or any high gain amp just needed to "tighten up their playing"

What's with the hate on overdrives :?: :?: :?: They've been in common use since 80s and are still common with MOST high gain amplifiers.

 

[ryjan]

That's a little harsh but I agree. Putting an OD in front of a high gain amp doesn't make it tight. It makes it thin and solid state sounding, at least to my ears. You want a tight amp? Tighten up your playing.

You're right. Jeff Loomis, the guitarists in Killswitch Engage (and almost every metal band in the past 15 years), Mark Tremonti, Adam Jones, and everybody who has ever boosted a Rectifier, 5150, or any high gain amp just needed to "tighten up their playing"

Glad you agree.
If you learn how to read you will discover that I was expressing MY opinion for My playing. And yes. If you are a sloppy player with a poor pick attack a boost could be a nice crutch for you.

 

[Melodyman]

That's a little harsh but I agree. Putting an OD in front of a high gain amp doesn't make it tight. It makes it thin and solid state sounding, at least to my ears. You want a tight amp? Tighten up your playing.

You're right. Jeff Loomis, the guitarists in Killswitch Engage (and almost every metal band in the past 15 years), Mark Tremonti, Adam Jones, and everybody who has ever boosted a Rectifier, 5150, or any high gain amp just needed to "tighten up their playing"

Glad you agree.
If you learn how to read you will discover that I was expressing MY opinion for My playing. And yes. If you are a sloppy player with a poor pick attack a boost could be a nice crutch for you.

Playing any amp with distortion is a crutch, playing unplugged clean is the most brag worthy.