Mesa and Marshall: power tubes' overdrive

[ytse_jam]

Old marshalls have become famous for their overdriven tone when cranked (all controls set to 10 and Master high too, if present), so the great rock tones we've listened to are related to poweramp distortion mainly. Mesa instead paid more attention to the preamp section of its amps, letting the poweramp to be quite transparent.
What I wanted to know is if anyone could compare Mesa and Marshall power tubes distortion nowadays...
In an article written by himself, Randall Smith says EL34s tend to amplify that cut-off distortion effect (not the normal clipping of the signal due to the reaching of the maximal tube current, but the cut-off that happens when reaching the minimal value of the current itself), and he says also that this cut-off effect will affect the tone negatively. So, why almost everybody loved that marshall poweramp distortion tone (THE rock tone), and why Mesa has let to its poweramp sections a "secondary" role?
Obviously, I also would like to know if anyone mainly makes use of poweramp distortion with his Mesas...

 

[Anonymous]

Post removed.

 

[Schmoog]

I have found with my 6L6 based mesa's, I like the amp best at high (not cranked) volumes, with my el34 based mesa, I run it full bore. I think the power tube saturation thing may be more tube related than amp related. I mean, my rock tone comes from the clean channel on fat clean mode of my stiletto. its totally clean preamp with the cookin power amp.

 

[Humbility]

on my single I ran my output at say 1-2 o'clock and the channel masters at like 8-9 o'clock. MUCH better roar. I do pretty much the same with my dual but.....its louder

 

[Russ]

I think that Marshalls sound great cranked and up on power tube distortion. This is the way they are designed. That is the Marshall sound.

Mesa's began as Fenders as did Marshalls but took a different approach. This can be seen in the circuit designs. If you look at things on a simpler note, Mesa tends to like a clean power section and voices their pre's to take advantage of that. Though the amp can produce power tube distortion it is not the prevalent use. More people rely on the preamp to create the tone that they want. This is kind of a modern phenomenon. You can hear it in the music itself. There are fewer people recording with power tube distortion than there had been in the past. Therefore it makes perfect sense that it is the more popular use of your amp currently.

Personally I like the sound of an amp that is ready to come unglued. To me that is good tone. I still use my Mark IV without pushing it that hard though. I find that I like the way it sounds when it is more under control.

 

[stadidas]

I have my channel masters at about nine o'clock on my Single Rec. I love the power-amp overdrive.

 

[Cleekster]

I have my channel masters at about nine o'clock on my Single Rec. I love the power-amp overdrive.

HUH??!!! Dude yoour Channel master is like a volume knob for the 5th gain stage in the preamp and either will give you a more agressive character to your sound when turned lower or a Warmer more "tubey" sound when turned up higher.Where is the OUTPUT set.


I agree though most people think that just 'cause an amp(regardless of brand) is High Gain it either isn't designed or cannot achieve Power Tube Distortion.

Vintage Mode
Master:12 o'clock
Output:10:30
Solo:5:30

 

[RR]

I think that Marshalls sound great cranked and up on power tube distortion. This is the way they are designed. That is the Marshall sound.

Mesa's began as Fenders as did Marshalls but took a different approach. This can be seen in the circuit designs. If you look at things on a simpler note, Mesa tends to like a clean power section and voices their pre's to take advantage of that. Though the amp can produce power tube distortion it is not the prevalent use. More people rely on the preamp to create the tone that they want. This is kind of a modern phenomenon. You can hear it in the music itself. There are fewer people recording with power tube distortion than there had been in the past. Therefore it makes perfect sense that it is the more popular use of your amp currently. ....

Yup, that's how I would sum it up. As much as I like Boogies (3), for me, there's something about a cranked up Marshall especially those older non-master volume.

But I would not make it an issue pre-amp distortion -vs- power amp distortion. Everyone has their preference. 8)

But ytse_jam, that is a great observation. :wink:

 

[ursinus]

Not one to beat a dead horse, but those of you who have MKIV's ought to try them with 6V6's in the power section. Crank the master about 6-7 and adjust your channel pre's accordingly. You will get the sweetest power tube saturation. Rythm 2 with the pre at 6, pulled for fat, prescence pushed in sounds like a old plexi to me.....