matching speaker wattage to the amp

[thinskin57]

simple, stupid question: my fender supersonic is rated at 60 watts. i want to try one of those eminence maverick speakers, the ones w/built in attenuation, in this amp. the maverick speaker is rated at 75 watts. is this ok? i think i remember reading something a long time ago that said you can blow the amp if you use a speaker rated higher than the amp's wattage. they were probably talking about extreme mismatches but i want to be sure. my memory is a bit fuzzy on this one.

 

[MrMarkIII]

I'm sure you mean just the opposite. The recommendation was probably that the speaker should be rated to handle twice the output power of the amp.
It also depends on how loud you play. If you operate the master volume on a 60 watt amp at 6 or above on a regular basis, you would certainly be better off with a 120 watt speaker.
I know how you feel. I'm really tempted to try a Maverick in my 75 watt Mark III.

 

[rocknroll9225]

ya, you have it backwards. the speaker should be rated higher than the amp.

 

[94Tremoverb]

You cannot damage an amp by running it into too high a speaker rating, ever - unless the amp is simply not up to the job of being run at full power in the first place. You can certainly damage a speaker by running it with too high an amp power though - which could then damage the amp if the speaker goes to an open circuit.

How much extra rating of speaker you want compared to the amp's power depends on the type (brand, some are more conservatively rated than others), what type of cabinet it's going into, and how you plan to use the amp - but somewhere between at least the power of the amp and possibly up to double it is good.

(It's true that Mesa do fit 90W speakers as standard in several of their 100W amp models, BUT - these are Celestions, which are about the toughest brand out there, and they're in amps with a clean channel that is expected to be kept clean, so the overdriven sounds will be kept down to the same relative volume which is not going to be above the amp's clean power.)

Some of the confusion about this is because for *PA* (and hi-fi, and monitors) it's better the other way round - you want the amp more powerful than the speaker rating, because what does the harm is if the amp distorts - you want to avoid that at all costs. When this happens a lot of excess high frequency harmonics are generated which will almost immediately fry the tweeters and sometimes the crossovers, so it's better that the first distortion that occurs is from the bass driver, which will tolerate it for long enough for the soundman to back off the volume (hopefully!). Guitar amps are the exact opposite, distortion is expected and there are no tweeters, so you need to make sure the driver will handle the full distorted power output continuously, which can be between 150% and 200% of the clean rated power.

In my personal opinion I would not put a 75W Eminence in a 60W Mesa or Fender amp, especially if the idea is to crank the amp and use the speaker to bring the volume back down. Those new Eminences are expensive, too.

 

[thinskin57]

In my personal opinion I would not put a 75W Eminence in a 60W Mesa or Fender amp, especially if the idea is to crank the amp and use the speaker to bring the volume back down. Those new Eminences are expensive, too.

thanks tverb. the supersonic is INSANELY loud. at band levels (volume just under 3!!), i can get its bassman circuit to break up nicely and get that keith richards sound. however, at home i can't bring this amp over 1.5 on the volume which means no breakup. it is THAT loud. i think this speaker will allow me to work the amp a bit more, get the sound that it is doing just that, and then tone it down a bit at the speaker. waiting for it to arrive so we shall see. i personally don't find it too expensive when you consider what it does, plus i got it for 30 bucks less than what everyone else is selling them for. celestion blues and golds- now THOSE are too expensive. :wink:

 

[MrMarkIII]

For breakup at bedroom volume, you're going to have to use the Burn channel. Turn up the Gain(s) and use the Master to control loudness. Don't use the 15 watt Celestion Blue or 50 watt Gold. They are low power speakers, meant to be used in small amps, or in pairs. Sound great, but not meant for big amps.
There are a bunch of Eminence speakers rated at 150 watts. I currently have a Texas Heat (150 watts) in my Mark III (75 watts). Sounds good, tames some of the shrill highs, is designed for early breakup, and weighs half as much as the EVM 12L (10 vs. 20 lbs.).
You simply cannot get a cranked amp tone at quiet levels without either using the Master volume, or an attenuator. Some will argue that pre-amp distortion is not as "good" as a cranked power section, but there's a reason master volume amps have been successful for so long. They work.
As far as Celestion reliability, the only speakers I've blown up in the last twenty years have been world famous Celestions. Yes, I was playing loud. One was a 90 watt Mesa Black Shadow in a 75 watt Mark III amp, the other was an 80 watt in a 100 watt amp.
Your mileage may vary.

 

[thinskin57]

For breakup at bedroom volume, you're going to have to use the Burn channel. Turn up the Gain(s) and use the Master to control loudness. Don't use the 15 watt Celestion Blue or 50 watt Gold. They are low power speakers, meant to be used in small amps, or in pairs. Sound great, but not meant for big amps.
There are a bunch of Eminence speakers rated at 150 watts. I currently have a Texas Heat (150 watts) in my Mark III (75 watts). Sounds good, tames some of the shrill highs, is designed for early breakup, and weighs half as much as the EVM 12L (10 vs. 20 lbs.).
You simply cannot get a cranked amp tone at quiet levels without either using the Master volume, or an attenuator. Some will argue that pre-amp distortion is not as "good" as a cranked power section, but there's a reason master volume amps have been successful for so long. They work.
As far as Celestion reliability, the only speakers I've blown up in the last twenty years have been world famous Celestions. Yes, I was playing loud. One was a 90 watt Mesa Black Shadow in a 75 watt Mark III amp, the other was an 80 watt in a 100 watt amp.
Your mileage may vary.

no, i don't need to use the burn channel for breakup. since i can get breakup with the volume on 3 in the bassman channel, i'm pretty confident i can get that same sound at reasonable levels through the Eminence Maverick with its attenuation on. again, we'll have to see as it is still in the mail as i write this. i'm not a big fan of the burn channel on this amp, but its cleans kill in both channels, and it loves pedals.

 

[thinskin57]

well, the Eminence Maverick did the trick here. it does everything they said it would do and i'm genuinely thrilled, especially since i'm coming off a couple of gear purchases that left me a bit flat. i can now turn the amp's tweed channel up loud enough for it to break up, and the Maverick's attenuation feature allows me to do it at a volume that won't rattle pictures off my walls. this is my first experience with eminence. can't say how they'll perform in your amp, but my Supersonic loves it. can't wait to see how it will sound once it's broken in.