marshall amp tour

[lerxst88]

if you dont wanna watch the whole thing (its over 20 mins) ill shorten it for you:

everything but the handwired amps are made by machines!

kinda looks more like walking through a toyota camry plant than an amp factory. ill stick with mesa boogie!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1V9jRuN3Wg&feature=related

 

[ketiov]

everything but the handwired amps are made by machines!

Sorry to be an ***, but duh

I just have respect for Boogie because they haven't come out with a crappy lower line for the people who can't afford good amps. Marshall has cheapo stuff that all the kids play like MGs, and this has hurt their rep a bit amongst more serious musicians. Boogie still remains the dream amp for many people, giving it much more prestige.

 

[lerxst88]

yeah it does kinda suck that theres no new entry level boogie but once you do get one you have zero complaints!

good news is you can find some used boogies for under $500 (subway blues/rocket, f-series, formula preamp, DC series and maybe even a nomad)

 

[Rocky]

There is nothing wrong with using machines to build an amp.

 

[stephen sawall]

Are you guys under the illusion that Mesa amps are hand made ?
Or that machines are not being used ? :?: :arrow: :idea:

 

[Rocky]

I was going to add that part but didnt want to start anything. Mesa uses CNC machines and are NOT handmade/handwired amplifiers. Read some of the essays that Randy Smith has written folks.

 

[stephen sawall]

I do not want to start any thing. LOL
The build of Mesa is in general better than most.
.... I also believe who is using the "tools" has more to do with it.

:mrgreen:

 

[lerxst88]

well im not saying they are COMPLETELY handmade but it seems like they at least solder in all the components and wire everything up. my amp and footswitch has a signature on the board and i dont think a machine signs the boards

im saying marshall just uses machines for EVERYTHING even soldering! which i think shows a complete lack of attention to detail whereas if your amp's board is populated by a person i would think they would naturally have more attention to detail

 

[Charlie]

The entire circuit board in current Mesa amps is soldered by a machine. I took a tour of the factory last year and posted pics here they should still be up if you want to do a search for them. I believe all of the flying leads are hand soldered and the cabinets look like there is a large degree of hand built craftsmanship involved. With that said... who cares? They are very well made amps. If you really want a hand built amp try one of the small boutique amp makers out there... but you aren't going to be able to find the type of features that they cram into Mesa's.

To the best of my knowledge there is no way to get all of those features crammed into a point to point handwired amp it needs to be done on a circuit board and if you are going to use a circuit board you might as well use a machine. It will probably do a better job anyway.

I think the problem most people have with current Marshalls is they are made like crap and you are better off buying a good clone (or making it yourself).

 

[francm]

I do not want to start any thing. LOL
The build of Mesa is in general better than most.
.... I also believe who is using the "tools" has more to do with it.

:mrgreen:

That's a common misconception. Mesa quality is at par with Marshall's according to quality surveys. I don't a the reference anymore so I guess you can take that with a grain of salt.
Also, Mesa amp PCBs are NOT handmade.

 

[stephen sawall]

I do not want to start any thing. LOL
The build of Mesa is in general better than most.
.... I also believe who is using the "tools" has more to do with it.

:mrgreen:

That's a common misconception. Mesa quality is at par with Marshall's according to quality surveys. I don't a the reference anymore so I guess you can take that with a grain of salt.
Also, Mesa amp PCBs are NOT handmade.

I can believe that ....

 

[CoG]

I do not want to start any thing. LOL
The build of Mesa is in general better than most.
.... I also believe who is using the "tools" has more to do with it.

:mrgreen:

That's a common misconception. Mesa quality is at par with Marshall's according to quality surveys. I don't a the reference anymore so I guess you can take that with a grain of salt.

I dunno man, maybe for a subset of expensive Marshalls. Every Marshall I've had, and I've had or used three long-term, stuff would just go wrong or wear out for no reason. I had to replace at least two pots, switches, or jacks on every Marshall. I've had five pieces of Mesa gear, two of them around 20 years old, and the only thing that was ever wrong with any of them was that my Rec Pre had one dodgy pot which Mesa has since stopped using and switched to a different type, and they replaced it under warranty.

I don't know if it's a build quality issue so much as a component issue-- with the Marshalls it seems to be components failing as opposed to problems with workmanship.

There's a real apples-and-oranges factor for overall quality, though, it's not really fair to compare a $400 (new) solid-state Marshall starter amp with a Mesa that costs five times that much.

 

[stephen sawall]

Yes it is. The price of things does not make it better.....
I have seen lots of expensive guitars that were really just crap and cheap ones that kick ***. This is true of guitars, amps, cars, women, etc.....

 

[francm]

I dunno man, maybe for a subset of expensive Marshalls. Every Marshall I've had, and I've had or used three long-term, stuff would just go wrong or wear out for no reason. I had to replace at least two pots, switches, or jacks on every Marshall. I've had five pieces of Mesa gear, two of them around 20 years old, and the only thing that was ever wrong with any of them was that my Rec Pre had one dodgy pot which Mesa has since stopped using and switched to a different type, and they replaced it under warranty.

I don't know if it's a build quality issue so much as a component issue-- with the Marshalls it seems to be components failing as opposed to problems with workmanship.

There's a real apples-and-oranges factor for overall quality, though, it's not really fair to compare a $400 (new) solid-state Marshall starter amp with a Mesa that costs five times that much.

I'm referring to the quality of the Made In England marshall tube amps VS Made in USA Mesa Tube Amps.... not Korean made low budget amps VS Mesa.

Marshall, expensive? Huh? And Mesa is cheap compared to Marshall?

 

[KH Guitar Freak]

I still have to disagree on the bit where Marshalls are on par to Mesa's build quality. This may not apply to the handwired stuff, but production Marshalls aren't as well built as Mesas I've find...

 

[MesaENGR412]

I still have to disagree on the bit where Marshalls are on par to Mesa's build quality. This may not apply to the handwired stuff, but production Marshalls aren't as well built as Mesas I've find...

I agree. Plastic knobs, switches and buttons, plastic cab and amp corners, plastic handles on a $2,400 JVM and a $900 cab??? Even their tolex doesn't feel as thick or rugged as Mesa's (compare Mesa's "Bronco" tolex to Marshall's "elephant skin" tolex). The JVM's knobs are the same knobs used on my old AVT275!! I had that thing for about 2 years and the gold wore off the volume knobs and the markings wore off the face plate. Mesa stuff is all Metal components, heavy duty switches and NO PLASTIC! I've had my Tripe Rec for 4 years, knobs still look brand new, still shiny black, and I've wiped down the chassis a few times, and none of the logos have come off . I A/B'd a Road King II and a JVM410H side-by-side this weekend, and although the Marshall sounded GREAT, the overall aesthetic appearance and component feel was very lacking compared to the Mesa IMHO.

-AJH

 

[KH Guitar Freak]

I still have to disagree on the bit where Marshalls are on par to Mesa's build quality. This may not apply to the handwired stuff, but production Marshalls aren't as well built as Mesas I've find...

I agree. Plastic knobs, switches and buttons, plastic cab and amp corners, plastic handles on a $2,400 JVM and a $900 cab??? Even their tolex doesn't feel as thick or rugged as Mesa's (compare Mesa's "Bronco" tolex to Marshall's "elephant skin" tolex). The JVM's knobs are the same knobs used on my old AVT275!! I had that thing for about 2 years and the gold wore off the volume knobs and the markings wore off the face plate. Mesa stuff is all Metal components, heavy duty switches and NO PLASTIC! I've had my Tripe Rec for 4 years, knobs still look brand new, still shiny black, and I've wiped down the chassis a few times, and none of the logos have come off . I A/B'd a Road King II and a JVM410H side-by-side this weekend, and although the Marshall sounded GREAT, the overall aesthetic appearance and component feel was very lacking compared to the Mesa IMHO.

-AJH

Actually, I've played a JVM before, and I do not like it, especially for the money. Too thin and noisy sounding. Also, channel four is rather useless for me, the gain on that channel has too much saturation to the point of being unusable...

 

[Nick Athanasatos]

Thanks for the tour.
A more impressive Marshall factory tour is posted on youtube, but mostly in Portuguese.

WHICH IS THE BETTER BUILD QUALITY?
The Mesa tour is not too different in comparison. That circuit board thing is NOT convincing.
All of those components,attached to that flimsey foundation,is a compromise,on both amps.
I have owned both flagships,
Mesa MKlll (had) /older MKlV (have) and Marshall Original 50 watt Plexi (had)/ JTM-45-100 (the amp Mr. Marshall holds up in the tour
and say's, this is something special, a handwired 40th anniversary...)

Mesa makes possibly the most,high quality mass produced/advanced tech Amp there is.
They are great examples of they"re breed.
Marshall is not as good build, in that range.

But the Marshall handwired amps are done in an old world/authentic manner,and are not the same animal.
If you examined the insides of the new MKV head,and the Plexi handwired head, which probably will cost about the same (in USA), it would tell a lot.
Kind of like a new BMW with all the electronics, compared to a 60's Camaro/Corvette.
I think the handwired Marshall will still be in use 50 years from now,but that green piece of plastic Circuit Board will be disintegrated.

A close look at the insides of Mesa Amps from original MKl through now, would certainly show a better built amp then.
Those day's it was a Custom Bespoke item.
Has anyone had a chance to look at older Mesas to compare?

 

[lerxst88]

Funny story

Today we got a marshall JMP in the shop to be set up to stock specs according to a schematic that was sent from marshall in england. the amp was modded by piggybacking caps and resistors on the original components. We took them all off and tried to play it and it didnt work! It was biasing at 45 volts maximum instead of 63! we checked the values on the bias resistors and they were wrong!!! somehow marshall sent this amp out of the factory that wasnt even biased correctly!!!! kind of amazes me that this kind of workmanship is passable.

speaking of JMPs has anyone ever played one? what are they supposed to sound like? this sounds really nice clean and has a killer distortion but only when everything is on ten. Also its loud but not ridiculously loud like I thought it would be

 

[eltib]

Mesa hasn't made a handmade amp since the MK2 series. They were the last to be made that way.