Mark VII - EVM-12L??

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lwilliams

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Location
Georgia
I am wondering if the Electro-Voice EVM-12L would tighten up the bottom of the Mark VII. I like the with the factory Celestion, but would like the bass response to be a little tighter, less loose.

And I worry about the factory speaker when running 2 of my channels on 90W since the speaker is not rated for that. The EV is rated for 200W.
 
yes
immensely worth it go for it
one of the few marks i like w ev200
Can you expand on your comment? I have a VII paired with a 4x12 traditional and I've been thinking of swapping in some EVM12Ls. Would be a heavy beast for sure! I also have a 2x12 vert that I gig with that is also a candidate for the speaker swap, just not sure of adding extra weight...
 
I have an older OS Recto 412 that had the 70W Celestion V30s. I did not like them with any amp. Too flubby or it would get stuck in a horn like sound. I swapped those out with the EVM12L Black Label speakers. OMG did that make a world of difference. The JP2C never sounded better. Even ran it with the Mark VII. Comparing that to the standard 412 with the current V30, the EV loaded cab is much louder. I have been using it with a Roaster for some time. I had the cab apart so many times the screws could not be used to hold the grill in place. So I used the metal gromets and screwed the grill from the front through the frame. Also added some weather stripping to prevent the grill from vibrating. The EV works really well in a sealed 412 cab. I needed longer screws for the speakers as the original screws were too short. The grill did not permit front mounting the speaker and I did not feel like taking a router to the frame to get the clearance. The few extra pounds of the EV compared to the V30 is not much. Cab weighs enough as it is without any speakers loaded.

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Also loaded up a Mesa widebody 112 cab with the EVM12L classic. Sounds much the same as the black label version. That was one of the first cabs I wanted to try out with the Mark VII. WOW, the clean channels were epic on their own. Gain modes were also awesome. As for the Mark V90 in the image, that speaker is an OTR (Organic Timbre Rhapsody G12F) which has more of a treble roll off than the EV. Was hoping that would help with the ice pick tone of that amp.


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Conversion of the combo to fit an EV is not simple. Mounting the EV like you would the MC90 is not possible, it leaves no room for the chassis, clearance of the power tubes and or tube shields cannot be removed unless you pull the chassis. Note that this is a widebody Mark V90 combo shell. I first tried rear baffle mounting, was not going to work out. Sanded out the speaker opening with a round drum sander, so the speaker frame just fits. The OTR was a little larger than the EV. No T nuts, just washers and cap screws and locking nuts. The cap screws will embed into the frame of the speaker so they basically lock in once you get them seated. #10-24 is what I used. Pictures of swapping the OTR to the EVM classic so I can compare a better apple to a lemon.

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Modifying the frame took some patience as you need to remove some of the wood to get the speaker clearance at the bottom and top areas. I did that with a router and lots of luck but managed to keep the frame from breaking in half or cutting off my fingers during the process. Sorry I did not think if taking a picture of the grill from the back side. In my opinion, the Mark V90 is not very compatible with the EV speaker. However, never threw a dust cap with it like I have with every MC90 I tried. As for mod to the Mark VII combo, not sure if it is possible due to the frame of the grill and the resistors mounted to the bottom of the chassis. Not sure if the small fan will be in the way or not. It may fit but doubt it is possible with the EV mounted on the rear side of the baffle.

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If I ever got tired of the Mark VII and JP2C heads, I would buy a Mark VII combo shell and modify them for the EV speaker as the JP2C chassis is much the same as the Mark VII. Just does not have the two resistors up front since the speaker off load resistor is internal on the JP.

In my opinion, EVM12L is the way to go for the JP2C or the Mark VII. You can go all out with the EV. Besides, that is what was in the Mark III combo I had. Plenty to fit in the mix of a band as that is all I had during my band days in the 1990's.

Open back or closed back, the EVM12L can do it. You basically get out of it what you push into it.
 
I am wondering if the Electro-Voice EVM-12L would tighten up the bottom of the Mark VII. I like the with the factory Celestion, but would like the bass response to be a little tighter, less loose.

And I worry about the factory speaker when running 2 of my channels on 90W since the speaker is not rated for that. The EV is rated for 200W.
What color are the power tubes? Just curious. My first Mark VII came with the green color tubes, they were a bit too much early gain. I found yellows to be an improvement overall.

Measured peak power of the Mark VII with the volume at noon is about 145W when running the 90W mode. It was a very close match to the JP2C which I thought was surprising. Not sure what the peak power rating of the MC90 is. 90W is just the nominal power and not what it can withstand. Since the dust cap makes the speaker appear to have a larger voice coil, (it has the same 1.75inch like the V30) so when pushing the speaker at gig level volumes, it can distort and separate the dust cap since it is not in close proximity to the voice coil former that adds rigidity to the cone in that area.

Not sure if the EVM12L will fit the Mark VII combo without some gross mods to the speaker grill. I assume the MC90 is rear baffle mounted. There are two drop in Celestion speakers that will retain the integrity of amp without having to get out any power tools to make it fit. There really is no replacement for the EVM12L black label or classic. There may be some close versions from Celestion that will fit without mods: Still there is no telling if the EV can be mounted on the backside of the baffle and have clearance for the tubes and such. If I had bought the Mark VII combo, I am sure I would have found out as that would have been what I would desire with the amp as a primary speaker choice as it sounds really good with the Mark VII ( I have the head and a Mesa wide body open back I installed the EVM12L so I could run that with the JP2C, it just sounds better with the Mark VII in my opinion. )

Celestion Redback speaker, it can take abuse. Rated for 150Wrms, 2 in voice coil. I had that in the Mark V combo for a while. I ran the JP2C into it to see if I could get it to fail. Got it as loud as I could and it just kept going strong. It does have a slight treble roll off though.

Celestion Copper back, 250W, 2.5 in voice coil. The other they came out with not so long ago, Celestion Copper Back. Not sure how close this gets to the EVM12L. I was going to get one to try out but never got around to it.
 
Also loaded up a Mesa widebody 112 cab with the EVM12L classic. Sounds much the same as the black label version. That was one of the first cabs I wanted to try out with the Mark VII. WOW, the clean channels were epic on their own. Gain modes were also awesome.
Hmmm... maybe I should try an EVM in my WB
 
Can you expand on your comment? I have a VII paired with a 4x12 traditional and I've been thinking of swapping in some EVM12Ls. Would be a heavy beast for sure! I also have a 2x12 vert that I gig with that is also a candidate for the speaker swap, just not sure of adding extra weight...

if 6 extra lbs is in that cab gonna make or break you take just the head, xlr foh
cab clone setting #6 is what i use to match the evm tone even though

setting 6 (lonestar c90) is what I use mine on foh, headphones & recording.
stumbled onto the evm sounding most “like” THAT and havent switched regardless of what they say the “voicing is” in manwell.
 
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What color are the power tubes? Just curious. My first Mark VII came with the green color tubes, they were a bit too much early gain. I found yellows to be an improvement overall.

Measured peak power of the Mark VII with the volume at noon is about 145W when running the 90W mode. It was a very close match to the JP2C which I thought was surprising. Not sure what the peak power rating of the MC90 is. 90W is just the nominal power and not what it can withstand. Since the dust cap makes the speaker appear to have a larger voice coil, (it has the same 1.75inch like the V30) so when pushing the speaker at gig level volumes, it can distort and separate the dust cap since it is not in close proximity to the voice coil former that adds rigidity to the cone in that area.

Not sure if the EVM12L will fit the Mark VII combo without some gross mods to the speaker grill. I assume the MC90 is rear baffle mounted. There are two drop in Celestion speakers that will retain the integrity of amp without having to get out any power tools to make it fit. There really is no replacement for the EVM12L black label or classic. There may be some close versions from Celestion that will fit without mods: Still there is no telling if the EV can be mounted on the backside of the baffle and have clearance for the tubes and such. If I had bought the Mark VII combo, I am sure I would have found out as that would have been what I would desire with the amp as a primary speaker choice as it sounds really good with the Mark VII ( I have the head and a Mesa wide body open back I installed the EVM12L so I could run that with the JP2C, it just sounds better with the Mark VII in my opinion. )

Celestion Redback speaker, it can take abuse. Rated for 150Wrms, 2 in voice coil. I had that in the Mark V combo for a while. I ran the JP2C into it to see if I could get it to fail. Got it as loud as I could and it just kept going strong. It does have a slight treble roll off though.

Celestion Copper back, 250W, 2.5 in voice coil. The other they came out with not so long ago, Celestion Copper Back. Not sure how close this gets to the EVM12L. I was going to get one to try out but never got around to it.
yeah
yer on watch bro. this info isnt even remotely inclusive or on point @ what op asked
mansplaining, oversplaining, too verbose, english teacher responses

buh RO!! you ever go on twitter?
youre on 160 CHARACTER restriction from now on, not even 160 words restriction!

mark0 tf OUT!
 
I was reading through this thread and thought I was at The Gear Page or the Marshall forum for a minute.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, no need to be rude. Yea I get it, bandit writes long replies. There is usually good info in those replies. Do I read every single one? No. Sometimes I’ll skim thru quick and pick out the info I need.

No need to be a d!ck, if it’s tldr just move on…

Dom
 
Such a fun place to visit. or it was.
Nah man, your posts are great. Don’t let one bad apple discourage you. I was hoping ChatGPT could translate some of Mark0’s posts to something legible but had no luck. It’s almost like Mark0 is a bot who had half it’s code erased before being published and now it just spits out nonsense.

I was actually curious about this speaker myself.
 
I only wish Mesa had the EV option for the Mark VII combo. Considering how good the extension cab sounded with the Mark VII head, heck even the JP2C was excellent with the EVM12L Classic or the Black label version. Not sure it would be a direct fit without making some mods to the combo cabinet.
 
I only wish Mesa had the EV option for the Mark VII combo. Considering how good the extension cab sounded with the Mark VII head, heck even the JP2C was excellent with the EVM12L Classic or the Black label version. Not sure it would be a direct fit without making some mods to the combo cabinet.
How much did the EV speakers change when they moved production? I heard that the parts between the old USA factory and the factory in Mexico are not the same. Mesa definitely dropped them once they moved the factory, even though I'm sure a lot of people do want the classic EV loaded Thiele and Mark cabinets.

Of course, back in the day you could also get Altec 417-8H or JBL E-120 speakers, which were upcharges from the EVM 12L. A lot of it I guess also depends on the type of sound you want to get from the amp.
 
Hmmm I'm not sure what all that was about :unsure: but... there is a thing I discovered, it's called the scroll bar. If there is some verbiage I'm not digging I'll just use it to "scroll past it". Works really well.

Back to the technical $#!t... I appreciate the conversation, doesn't mean I will agree with what someone posts if I have direct experience. FWIW I have two EVMs.. one on this compact open back cab, the other in a closed back bottom of a vert 2x12. Certainly don't find it too "woofy" in this compact cab, but that's just me. I do find the C90 in the WB can get a bit loose and resonant on the bottom with the V. The can has alot to do with it I feel. For recent live work have gone to the 2x12 Recto v30/Scumback and that seems a bit better balanced in the band mix, more direct and cuts thru.

Maybe still worth a try in the WB.


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The frame is probably the same, I doubt they changed that since it is cast aluminum.
There is a different rear end cap surrounding the core on the back. Steel plate is still there on both sides of the ceramic magnet but there is an aluminum hub on the back where the vent is located. That black area in the center is not flat like the older versions. That is about all I see that is different. Webbing and spider are as stiff as the Mesa version. The EV classic I had from 1990 was different, softer webbing and had a softer bass response compared to the Mesa EV BS. Classic is much the same as the Black Label version. Just different paint. I think they derated the wattage for the classic but same VC as the BL.
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Hmmm I'm not sure what all that was about :unsure: but... there is a thing I discovered, it's called the scroll bar. If there is some verbiage I'm not digging I'll just use it to "scroll past it". Works really well.

Back to the technical $#!t... I appreciate the conversation, doesn't mean I will agree with what someone posts if I have direct experience. FWIW I have two EVMs.. one on this compact open back cab, the other in a closed back bottom of a vert 2x12. Certainly don't find it too "woofy" in this compact cab, but that's just me. I do find the C90 in the WB can get a bit loose and resonant on the bottom with the V. The can has alot to do with it I feel. For recent live work have gone to the 2x12 Recto v30/Scumback and that seems a bit better balanced in the band mix, more direct and cuts thru.

Maybe still worth a try in the WB.


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It will not get woofy. The poser has no clue. It will work in a widebody cabinet, they are not very deep to start with. 10 inch depth does not constitute a woofy sound, the C90 would sound like crap in that were the case. If it was 14 inches deep, now that would get into the wooly sound. More low end and less top end. For the extension cab, no need to front mount the speaker, rear baffle mounting will work just fine. Just do not over compress the gasket material or it may separate.
 
I am wondering if the Electro-Voice EVM-12L would tighten up the bottom of the Mark VII. I like the with the factory Celestion, but would like the bass response to be a little tighter, less loose.

And I worry about the factory speaker when running 2 of my channels on 90W since the speaker is not rated for that. The EV is rated for 200W.
In case this got lost, the answer is yes and no. I found with the Mark VII, the power tube colors used may influence the low end a bit. Reason why I asked about bias color of the tubes. I had greens as stock tubes in the first Mark VII, changed them to yellow and all was much better. The second one came with the yellows so no need to swap them. With the greens, the louder I made the amp the worse it got, too swampy and lacking detail.

EVM12L, yes, it will have a tighter low end, even after it breaks in. The top end can be unforgiving if you like the amp on the bright side but fear not, just adjust your controls. Excellent for all modes at any volume. No fear of going all out with the volume either. Clean channels will never sound better and you will get more detail from the EV speaker. Gain modes, awesome. Barely any cone breakup from the EV, it will keep on giving as if there are no limits.
 
I just grabbed a evm12L and loaded it into a port city 1x12. Huge improvement over the v30’s I was using before. I do find the speaker to add a tightness to the amp but more importantly it makes the graphic eq more usable for me and helped to resolve just some small tonal things that where bugging me. I would recommend one for sure.
 

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