Mark V owners who also own a Marshall JVM...

[vendo]

I've owned my Mark V combo for about a year and a half now. Love it, its been my only amp really. I bought the 112 ext cab to sit under it and have been very happy. There are still Marshall tones in my head I can;t get out of it though and I suspect the JVM would. I played one in a music shop before I bought the Mark and thought it was a pretty cool amp.

Is there enough tonal difference between them to own and use both? Would I be better off getting some kind of pedal that will do a convincing Marshall? Or have I just not tweaked my Mark long enough?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

 

[rocknroll9225]

I own both.

I've said it god knows how many times, but to reiterate, i prefer the mark v. by a lot.
I definitely love the JVM, but to be honest, if i only had the mark v, i probably would save up my money for something else like a recto or an Axe-Fx II (i already had the JVM by the time i upgraded to the Mark V). it's great to have both to have more options and so i can have fun with another amp for a while just in case i ever get bored with the boogie ( :lol: ), and the two definitely sound different. note that the difference isn't as huge as the difference between, for example, a Deluxe Reverb and a JCM800, so it's not like there are entire genres that one can do that the other can't. the JVM has a bit more bass (therefore, more flubbiness as well, so be warned) and doesnt cut or bite as much as the mark v does, in my experience. i know this is true of all tube amps, but the JVM really doesnt start to sound good until you crank it. it's not that it needs any more gain than the ridiculous amounts it has on tap, it's more so just that the balls of the amp really come out once it gets loud. at bedroom volumes it just kind of sounds like its under a blanket, so playing through it in a store probably wont do it justice.

so basically, they do definitely sound different. IMO, the mark v sounds better, but they do sound different enough to give them both a purpose if those are the tones you want.

most importantly - if the marshall tone is your thing, then save yourself **** tons of time, effort and money and just get the marshall. whatever you do, dont go trying to make your Mark V sound exactly like a JVM or vice versa, cause it wont.

 

[vendo]

Thanks for the info, that helps me out. I love the sound of the Mark but the "Marshall sound" is what I'm missing. Perhaps the JVM i more than I need, I really just want the hot-rodded JCM 800 sound. Maybe an old JCM800 combo is the way to go? I don't care if its a one trick pony cuz thats all it'll ever be set to do.

Thanks again!

 

[pj1967]

I've been experimenting with lots of different amps over the years...Vox AC30, Engl SE, Randal RM4 + Carvin TS100, JCM2000 TSL, Mark V and JVM. What I found was I keep going back to the Marshall sound. But even the JVM doesn't give me that 70s/80s growl...it's close, but not quite there. I've also had some reliability issues with the JVM that make me question using it live. So, I picked up a Granger 2203 replica and really love it. The only drawback (well aside from the ear-bleeding loudness) is it's a single channel amp, so I may ask Curt to build me a 2 channel version, a la 2210.

Having said that, I still noodle around with the Mark V and AC30 if I want a different sound. And the Randall system is a very versatile live stereo rig. The Engl and TSL will find a new home.

So, like rocknroll9225 said, if deep down you're a Marshall "head" then get a Marshall head.

--PJ

 

[Chester]

Thanks for the info, that helps me out. I love the sound of the Mark but the "Marshall sound" is what I'm missing. Perhaps the JVM i more than I need, I really just want the hot-rodded JCM 800 sound. Maybe an old JCM800 combo is the way to go? I don't care if its a one trick pony cuz thats all it'll ever be set to do.

Thanks again!

Comparing sound is always an interesting subject

I've owned a TSL and VM in search of THAT sound whilst I had Boogies in my stable. And sold both Marshalls (and others) becuase I could get what I wanted from the Mesas with more flexibility and range

I run a Fulltone FD II in front of my MKV in MK1 mode, and get great "Marshall" growl depending on where I set guitar volume. It took ages, but its a Boogie, and as you said earlier, its all in the set up and tweaking

I hit my sweetspot by taking the FX loop out ofthe chain in Variac power, running EL34s, with just the right amount of growl driving the front end for a great crunch sound. Depending on where I want to go, I have an additional 2 stages of gain on the FDII to get from Angus to Slash easily. The EQ sliders are key in fine tuning

I agree with others - if you want Marshall, buy Marshall. But I found Marshall and a whole lot more lurks in the MKV once I got to know the amp, which is the reason I keep it. Now, if I could only get the MKIV setting to work for me in CH3 ...

 

[NOWAYBACK]

Hello vendo,

I own both heads, they are very different in many aspects, well worth having the two of them if you can afford it. I have taken both to live gigs, and they equally brought vibrant and very enjoyable playing experiences. The Mark has the advantage of the on board graphic EQ - if you are into hard rock or metal, taking the EQ off the equation leaves you with very limited options; its not the case with the JVM: the addition of an external graphic EQ brings this head a plethora of tonal variety, as the Mark offers.
The statement of one being better that the other is not something I would support; I do believe that the JVM sounds better with G12-75s while the Mark excels with V30s.

Very best ,
Marcelo

 

[MarekRosinski]

In the last few months I went on a tone journey coming from not being satisfied with my egnater rengade head and mexi strat... I got one of the new PRS Santana guitars which I am happy with, and started my amp hunt after selling the renegade with a JVM 410H, a few amps and returns later I am happy with the Mark V combo.

One thing to consider is that on the Marshall forums the word is more than just rumor that next year, for their 50th anniversary, they will be rereleasing the JVM 410 as the Joe Satriani model.. The forum is awash with circuit mods people have performed and Joe's JVM is modded... Some of these will make it to the new model.. This is why I think GC has the JVM's in store at $200 off, but not online.. I would wait personally to see what is offered next year. Possibly the price of old JVMs will go down, and if you do not want a new one you can still buy an old one for cheap and have it modded yourself.

I loved the JVM, but found that it was inconsistent, had to be cranked to get thick, and once the honeymoon was over, there were no other ways to dial it in, minus getting an eq pedal... I find the Mark V much more versatile soundwise WITHOUT ever even engaging the onboard EQ... I barely even use it, I'm still discovering sounds and versatility for each channel without using the EQ's... I might get a JVM again one day because I do love the sound, but the longer I have the Mark V and learn to dial it in, ..well... I couldn't possibly imagine using the JVM for gigs in comparison... It gets 12 variations of one sound.. In my opinion the clean is good but still not bluesy enough, It was either crystal clear or kind of brittlish in the threshold sounds. The crunch was great, but again good get muddy. There was a sweet spot and under it was thin and over it it was muddy. The threshold sounds got to muddy in comparison to the Mark V... It had some great tones but tended to sag too much and track badly on fast leads on higher gain settings..And higher gain setting s I mean having the gain halfway up on channel 3 and 4.. not even close to all the gain I could have tried.. But fast passages sometimes tracked and sometimes didn't with just a wall of sound. Not the Mark V, it tracks each single note which is why I love it.

 

[MarekRosinski]

One more thing... While I thought I loved the Marshall sound (and still do...) I found really what I was looking for was the response and dynamics of what a Marhsall can do (clear big single notes, though as I said before, the JVM didn't track great at higher tempos like the Mark V does,) into clear crunch.. The Mesa sound took work because sometimes high gain solo sounds didn't crunch right for chords.. I found settings that can do both on the Mark V plus so much more... I can get that kind of response out of the Mark I setting when I need... I also found that many of the qualities that took times to get used to on the Mark V Mesa sound work great in a band.. For instance, sometimes there is this harmonic trebly haze on distortions sounds in channel 3.. By myself that was off putting, but in a band setting, somehow those frequencies cancel out with the cymbals and drums and are just what is needed for liquid definition in the treble region... It's weird, The Mark V is way more sophisticated and has taught me alot about how sounds fit in a mix.. It's actually genuis.. It is not a sound that can be appreciated (as much so,) by the bedroom player IMHO. The Marshall sound is achived by lower definition IMO, that's why it crunches so well... It lacks certain frequencies so chords don't much and you can turn up louder and only be louder in certain frequencies hence cut.. The Mark can do that and more, and can also sound fuller with all frequencies then the Marshall.. This is why I think some people don't realize that they are actually louder on a Marshall then a Mark V though the apparent volume is the same.. The Mark V can be set to cancel certain frequncies and then cut just like a Marshall.

 

[fjk1138]

I have both, and I like both for different reasons. The clean on the Mk V is ballsier and cleaner, but the JVM is more compressed and less bassy. I really like the Mk IV setting on the Mk V, but the JVM has way more sustain (even with the gain knob at 1/2 way and on the 2nd drive stage). All in all, I am glad I have both, but I have to admit the Marshall is easier for me to play through. Someday I will try the EL34s in the Mk V and see how mch different it feels.

 

[MarekRosinski]

I did find the Marshall easier to play through, but also less rewarding when things came together.. What I mean, and a perfect example... Through the Marshall there was a sustaining bloom around all the notes that did not pick up small nuances like string noise, body movement etc to the same degree as the Boogie... So it was easier to just play but there was also less nuance... I've heard it said before that the Mark V is like a microphone for your guitar. If I hold my guitar standing up and I talk at certain frequency, the actual resonance of the wood next to my chest gets picked up and amplified through the amp. The Mark V is the first amp I've had that can pick up the sound of my guitar body resonating at the frequency of my chest while I speak.. That is a trip. So If I find that I have to be much more controlled with the Mark when I play because every nuance gets amplified including string noise, any sloppy finger movement etc.. even if it is not connected with the note that I am playing.. The pay off though is that when things come together... I get way more defenition and liquidity from a fast run then I got with the JVM.. Below is a video I did of my honeymoon period with the JVM... Now that I have a Mark V I plan to do a video for comparision...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6FlZ0pcNz0

 

[vendo]

Hi guys

Thanks for your posts, wanted to leave an update to say I picked up a JVM 410C on the weekend. The price was right (I thought) at $1100. Its in like new condition, etc, etc.

After playing through the amp and it seems to be filling the void I was feeling with the Mark. That sound I had in my head that I just couldn;t find on the Mark was found in minutes on the JVM. I guess I love the Marshall sound and of course this has it in spades. I plan on keeping them both and just can't imagine what else I could possibly want. 21 channels between the two :mrgreen:

If I can't be happy with that I'll sell it all off and take up the French horn...

Anyway, thank again for your thoughts guys. Cheers!

 

[LesPaul70]

Congrats on the new acquisition. I believe you'll be happy with your purchase. When you are after something specific and you know what you want, it usually pays off to just get that instead of spending time and money on compromises and trying to emulate it with some other gear (you'll just waste your money and, in the end, be unhappy). Speaking from personal experience here - for me, that meant buying an old 2-channel Dual Rectifier in addition to my MkV.

But just out of curiosity, did you try your Mark V with EL34s? I'm asking this because I too like the Marshall vibe, but when I stuck in a quad of quality EL34s, the sound I got from channel 2 (Edge and Crunch) really killed (for me) any need to buy a Marshall again in the foreseeable future. Add a Tube Screamer style OD in front, and it's a dead ringer for the overdriven 1980s Marshall sound.
(And, contrary to what some other people here have experienced, I'm also getting significantly better lead and metal tones on channel 3 with the EL34s: more bite, more in-your-face aggression. If I want an ultra-scooped, thick, fat, flubby 6L6 metal rhythm tone (which I seldom do), I'll just turn to the Dual Recto - it does that kind of tone much better than the MkV anyway.)

 

[MarekRosinski]

I too found what I needed by putting in EL34's... But having owned a JVM, to be fair, a Marshall is still a Marsahall. I find the Mark V cool with the EL34's because it is almost like a hybrid beast... But it is still not a Marshall (loose with a different harmonic response,) but a Mark (focused..). Nor does it need to be. It's its' own beast.

I myself am very curious as to the Royal Atlantic that is soon to hit stores.

 

[braintheory]

And, contrary to what some other people here have experienced, I'm also getting significantly better lead and metal tones on channel 3 with the EL34s: more bite, more in-your-face aggression.

What brand of EL-34's did you use? I also wanna put EL-34's and new preamp tubes (since I heard that that is what is giving me that slightly congested midrangy sound) in my mark v, but don't know what brands to use.

 

[LesPaul70]

having owned a JVM, to be fair, a Marshall is still a Marsahall. I find the Mark V cool with the EL34's because it is almost like a hybrid beast... But it is still not a Marshall (loose with a different harmonic response,) but a Mark (focused..).

That's right. Of course it isn't exactly the same, and you don't need to be a corksniffer to notice it's a Mesa and not a Marshall. But you can get a very similar type of sound (in the ballpark), and once you add the Tube Screamer tone coloring into the equation, the differences kind of get smaller.

It was definitely good enough to fool my bandmates, and most of the audience aren't even that tone savvy.

 

[LesPaul70]

What brand of EL-34's did you use?

I got the best results with SED Winged =C= EL34s. In addition to the improved midrange bite they also tamed the annoying, ear-piercing high-frequency "ping"/screech of the stock 6L6s, which rendered the Bright switch (Channel 3) pretty much unusable to me (except for kinky masochistic "let's make my ears bleed" moments). The clean channel also got better in this particular respect (the "ping" could be rather annoying there too unless you heavily cut off the treble) although, in general, I liked the clean channel better with the 6L6s. Slightly. And unlike some other EL34s, the SEDs don't really cut your low frequency response - it's just not as prominent because of the improved mids.

 

[MarekRosinski]

having owned a JVM, to be fair, a Marshall is still a Marsahall. I find the Mark V cool with the EL34's because it is almost like a hybrid beast... But it is still not a Marshall (loose with a different harmonic response,) but a Mark (focused..).

That's right. Of course it isn't exactly the same, and you don't need to be a corksniffer to notice it's a Mesa and not a Marshall. But you can get a very similar type of sound (in the ballpark), and once you add the Tube Screamer tone coloring into the equation, the differences kind of get smaller.

It was definitely good enough to fool my bandmates, and most of the audience aren't even that tone savvy.

I know what you mean. My bandmates all thought I was louder with the EL34's even though my masters were lower than when I played with the 6L6's... I countered to my bass player that I could hear his bass better because of the more midrange grind but he still swears I am louder. lol. Everone thinks the amps sounds way clearer and better with the EL34's... Of course they loved the 6L6's too. The clean is still good with the EL34s, but the 6L6's did have an edge there. But very slight. It seems the 6L6's did have a certain added complexity that always got lost in the mix and the EL34s are more upfront yet retain clarity and tone in the mix. Anyway tone bantering. They both sound good. I prefer the EL34s for live playing.

 

[braintheory]

Will EL-34's get rid of the congested and honky sound of channel three or would that problem be solved with the preamp tubes? Also will EL-34's make the amp sound smoother in any way(particularly the treble notes) because that is the last thing I'd want.

 

[MarekRosinski]

Will EL-34's get rid of the congested and honky sound of channel three or would that problem be solved with the preamp tubes? Also will EL-34's make the amp sound smoother in any way(particularly the treble notes) because that is the last thing I'd want.

That is very subjective, .. The highs are smoother for me, but still very present. As for the mids, honkiness and congestion... to me the 6L6's sounded more congested precisely because I couldn't make it middy enough withoust it sounding off... so the EL34s made the mids clearer and stand out more like I would like... So I think of it as getting rid of congestion but someone else like yourself might think it pronounces mids too much.

 

[vendo]

But just out of curiosity, did you try your Mark V with EL34s? )

I did try them and gave it a few months but still couldn't get the sound in my head. Admittedly they weren't the best I could buy (matched quad of Mesas) and I'm not really good at tweaking the amp yet. Its been a year and a half and I still find it sort of overwhelming - as simple as the controls are. There's just so many combinations... With the JVM I had it in under a minute. Thats more my speed.

Anyway I'm enjoying the honeymoon with the JVM but the Mark aint goin anywhere. I honestly can't see ever parting with it. I'll probably put the 6L6s back in it though.