Mark V owner review of JP-2C (multi page post)

[bandit2013]

Yeah, I am wordy. Not sure why I decided to treat this thread as a blog. Perhaps the JP-2C has captivated me to no end. Now I am not posting much as I am spending more time with other things (drumming, and playing the guitar when I can, if I can).

 

[bandit2013]

BUMP..... Yeah I had too :roll: thread is not locked yet.... have to see if I can get to 5k :shock:
I will have to give the EVM12L Black Label speakers another try out with the JP-2C. I just completed overhauling my old OS Recto 412 with the EV speakers. I guess the separation did not last too long. Punched my eardrums out with the Roadster and when I recover I will plug in the JP and see if I get a nose bleed. It will be hard to beat the tone of the Vertical 212 cab, that small cab is awesome. Have one more cab to rebuild and may do it Sunday (not the good one with the gray grill cloth mind you,,,,, the Egnator traditional size cab will be getting the Celestion G12H75 Creambacks installed as I am dying to hear them in a smaller footprint.)

 

[dlpasco]

What really sold me on the amp was this German guy. He will really pick out some interesting tones and from what I can tell it is not overly published or polished in the mastering part of the recording. It really sounds like the videos! I do not understand German (I believe that is what it is) but you can get a good idea for most of it.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=jp-2c+review&&view=detail&mid=B5EC063E3CD36E0CD777B5EC063E3CD36E0CD777&FORM=VRDGAR

I love this guy - even if you only speak English, you can still pretty much get the gist of what he's saying. He's enthusiastic and a good player.

 

[bandit2013]

I was hoping he would demo the TC-50 but have not seen anything surface as of yet. I have plenty of amps to keep me busy but may bend to my desires to add one more to my collection. I was looking at the Mesa website yesterday for more details, noticed that the Lone Star may not be a simul-class amp. Too bad it does not have two rectifier tubes as that would be nice feature for 100W use. However, I am not interested in the Lone Star.

Shortly I will get the full Boogie though a 412 loaded with EV speakers.

 

[bandit2013]

I think I lost my hearing..... Before that took place, I think I like the EVM12L Black label speakers in the 412 with the JP-2C better than the V30's in a similar cabinet. I had both the Roadster and JP-2C running each cabinet. I was using a rhythm track I had previously recorded on a TC-ditto. Ran that thought he Roadster that was pushing the EV speakers. The JP-2C seemed to be missing something (needs more compression or something). The V30 loaded 412 seemed way too bright. I tried swapping the speaker cabinets and found the EV loaded cab to be more pleasing to my ears though the JP-2C. Hmm, seems to be more grunt and gain from the Roadster in comparison to the JP-2C. Very interesting. When I did this before using only 2x12 cabinets (Vertical+JP-2C and horizontal+Roadster), the JP-2C sounded great, bass was there in abundance as well as everything else and it blended well with the Roadster. However the run with the Mesa OS recto 412 (V30) was not as pleasant. I think in a 412 format, the EVM12L Black Label speakers sounded better though they are just as bright as the V30, there was ample bass response and perhaps a bit less mid influence but still sounded great. Felt like the JP-2C had too much overhead in its gain character. Will have to see what the Flux drive and or the grid slammer add to the mix (when my hearing returns to normal) That almost brought me back to why I hated V30 speakers with the Mark V. However, when separated using only one amp at a time, the V30 loaded 412 cab sounds great as I do not have to compete with another amp. (reason why I like the Roadster so much is it lacks the ice pick that seemed to be default setting with the Mark V, first time I had this experience with the JP) Ouch, I think I lost my hearing.... I tried to run the recorded track though the JP to play the drums with it as it was a chunky tune, could not hear the drums at all, even with the amp at 60W and the volume adjusted..... The JP-2C I think may be too loud for me, at least with the 412 cab loaded with V30. Perhaps the Roadster and JP-2C do not mix well as I thought they did with the 212. As it seems, less is more in this case. Perhaps when I get back into recording again, things will be a bit different. Now I have a splitting headache. :| Now I think I see the light.... why others get one, then sell it.... either it is too much amp or not enough. Still it is a keeper for me as I enjoy playing though this amp too much. Blending it in a mix having different guitar amps in use will be the trick (depending on speaker choice).

 

[bandit2013]

Here is an interesting question: for those who have the JP-2C and the TC-50....which one do you like better? (and to load the question)...and why?

My tax return was deposited much sooner than I had expected......I have this burning itch to take care of......Should I get it?

ooops, I posted this in the wrong forum....

 

[bandit2013]

I should not expect a 412 to respond the same way the 212 does. Had revisited the set up with the 412 cab and punched the gain and readjusted some settings. Now it sounds awesome. I wheeled in the Vertical 212 into the studio and ran the JP though that, much better with the drums. The 412 is a bit over the top for drum practice. All is good. Then again, I can use the grid slammer and or the flux drive to get more saturated tone for the dirty lead sound I was trying to dial in. The JP-2C pushing a EV loaded 412 is hella-good. I like it just as much as the V30 loaded cab but the EV is a bit more sinister in tone due to the filtering differences between the two speakers. A nice treat is to run both cabs at the same time. I am not fond of mixing different speakers in a single cabinet but if they are in their own boxes that is good, especially since the EV has a slight lag relative to the V30 in response time, you get some 3D stereo effect going on from a mono output.

 

[bandit2013]

This thread is not dead yet.... or is it?

I have to admit that I have not been playing though the JP-2C in a while. I have been focusing on drumming (learning how to play them, as well as honing what skills if any I may have acquired in the process.) Yesterday I powered up the Mark V to answer a question regarding 10W mode on CH3 involving the pentode/triode function. Played though the amp for a while and thought sounds good. Following that I had to retrieve the JP-2C and 2x12 cab from the studio and just enjoy the JP-2C once again. What a difference and enjoyable experience it is to play though the JP. I had a hard time shutting down the amp but my stomach won that battle as I was hungry. I am at that point that I want the Mark V to sound better, and parting with it may be the answer. I think the novelty of the Mark V has worn off. The JP is just awesome such that I can get what I want out of it. Yeah I know, subjective topic here. The Mark V is a great amp and I am sure someone else will enjoy it more than I do (don't be surprised if I keep it, somehow I feel it has no value and would cost me more to sell it than to keep it (no return on investment or the trade in value is not enough). Have my sights set on a TC-50 just for something different. Not sure how that will go over with the RA100 twins.

 

[bandit2013]

Yeah, again.... re-tubed the Mark V since it was bugging me. Now it sounds great. Still the JP has its own place and now the Mark V has finally been adopted or at the moment placed up on the same pedestal as the JP. (wonder how long my love/hate thing will go on with the V? hopefully it is fixed in the love status vs the other).

 

[APEMAN]

-

 

[bandit2013]

I have experimented with the 12AT7 and 5751 of the JAN variety. Even have an RFT 12at7 as that one has a slightly different character.

 

[bandit2013]

It did not dawn on my until yesterday. I decided to pull out the Mark V to dust if off and warm up the tubes a bit. I normally use the 90W at full power. There is one thing I can do with the Mark V that is harder to do with the JP-2C. That is dial in your tone and gain character you like but run it at a lower volume such that the tonal character is about the same as it would be at a higher setting. Reason why this works as the Mark V uses a common master when the FX loop is used. If I were to turn it off, then the same deal would occur as it does with the JP. Need to crank it to find that sweet spot.

The only different between the two at lower volumes, I get tube rattle with the Mark V. I do not notice it much on the CH2 or CH3 but on the clean channel it gets annoying. Does not matter what brand of 6L6 I use in the amp, they all rattle. It is the tubes since I can stop 90% of the noise by placing my finger on the end of the tube (usually cooler at the end unless the tubes were facing upward vs hanging down). Had a similar tube rattle issue with the Mark IV and Mark III. Never noticed it with the Roadster or JP-2C (same would apply with the RA100 if I use 6L6 tubes) but that does not mean it is not occurring, it is just not at an audible level to hear it. Makes me wonder if the extended class Push Pull simul Class circuit has something to do with it. Always thought it was the tubes, or a miss-match. did not make a difference. Rattle or tube sing, what ever it may be called (tubes are vibrating at the same frequency as the guitar signal). It was more noticeable when my Mark V was a head or if playing at low volume. 10W mode helps a bit in reducing it considerably.

 

[bandit2013]

In light of the saturation mode suggested by APMAN, I looked at the Mark V schematics and thought that V4 would be a better candidate for the 12AT7 just on a whim but I have tried this before but had V4, V5, and V6 loaded with 12AT7 when I was hooked on tube rolling the Mark V.
A bit to my surprise, only two tube changes seem to get the Mark V on par with the JP-2C. V1=SPAX7 and V3=Jan/Phillips 12AT7. The bright switch may not make things brighter as they did before but it definitely shifts the midrange point a bit and seems to cut bottom out. Mark IV mode now is comparable to the JP-2C CH2 (no pulls or shred mode). Quite articulate in note definition and does not seem to muddy up with higher gain settings. I can also add more bass and the amp sounds rich and balanced just like the JP-2C. Also seems to have acquired the JP-2C tone (change in mid voicing and no longer sounds thin because you have to drop the bass to loose the flub and mud). Extreme voice is almost close to the JP-2C CH3. Actually was considering selling the Mark V if I like the TC-50 that is due to arrive soon. Mark V does not sound identical to the JP-2C but with the change in preamp tubes suggested it sounds very close and would be hard to tell the difference in a blind test, unless you are actually blind and have better hearing that those of us with sight.

This new revelation on the Mark V or its rebirth into my desirable amps will not curb my love of the JP-2C. Great that I have something that is very close, much closer than the Roadster to the JP-2C that I could probably do a stereo rig of sorts with the JP and V. Looks like the marriage is not over. That's it, TC-50 is coming to town and the bad amp is pretending to sound good for a change. The reality is, a $15.00 tube is all that is need to mod your Mark V to JP-2C tone, V4 change to Jan/Phillips 12AT7WC will get you there with the rest being stock tubes, the Mesa SPAX7 may help to some extent in V1. Now I got more boogie than I need, never 8)

 

[bandit2013]

Mark V has been idle for a while..... so has the JP-2C.... been busy with the TC-50 but now that is off for repair the JP-2C can get some air time. I had been comparing the Roadster to the JP-2C. I did not realize how similar the clean channels are. They almost sound identical (roadster CH1 or CH2 set to fat or clean). I can easily dial in the Modern voice of the Roadster on the JP. Sure the JP has a bit more midrange content but can be dialed out. It may not have the sag that the Roadster has but not very hard to match the tone and gain character with the JP-2C. I could not do that with the Mark V but with the V4 changed to 12AT7 that may be a possibility. I am still amazed what you can do with the JP-2C. Only exception or I am having difficulty with is getting a similar character on the clean channel of the JP-2C as I can get with the Mark V. That may just be the difference in the power section or it could also be the preamp circuit too. JP-2C is a bit more mellow or warm and smooth compared to the Mark V clean which is a bit of a dry acoustic tone.

 

[gag halfrunt]

Mark V has been idle for a while..... so has the JP-2C.... been busy with the TC-50 but now that is off for repair the JP-2C can get some air time. I had been comparing the Roadster to the JP-2C. I did not realize how similar the clean channels are. They almost sound identical (roadster CH1 or CH2 set to fat or clean). I can easily dial in the Modern voice of the Roadster on the JP. Sure the JP has a bit more midrange content but can be dialed out. It may not have the sag that the Roadster has but not very hard to match the tone and gain character with the JP-2C. I could not do that with the Mark V but with the V4 changed to 12AT7 that may be a possibility. I am still amazed what you can do with the JP-2C. Only exception or I am having difficulty with is getting a similar character on the clean channel of the JP-2C as I can get with the Mark V. That may just be the difference in the power section or it could also be the preamp circuit too. JP-2C is a bit more mellow or warm and smooth compared to the Mark V clean which is a bit of a dry acoustic tone.

Great thread. I appreciate your very detailed descriptions of all the permutations you have tried.

I have been tempted by the JP-2C for awhile, and your thread is intensifying it. My Mark V combo is my main rig, and running it through Eminence Governors (in the combo plus an extension open back cab) warms up the cleans a lot. They are supposed to be Eminence's take on the Vintage 30, but I like the MV combo much better with them than V30s. So much that I play the cleans a lot more often than a metalhead normally would :lol:

But I would love the flexibility of the dual graphic EQs. Going to drool about the JP-2C for a little longer.

 

[bandit2013]

I admit I had my problems and issues with the Mark V, most important is trying to bond with that amp due to the sonic nature of the preamp. There is one feature of the Mark V that is going for it more than the other Mesa amps that I own. It responds extremely well to different preamp tubes (long plate, short plate, medium plate) what ever you opt for. You will generally hear the tube characteristics with this amp especially on the effects of the CH2 and CH3 (depends on what tubes you put where). Most of my preamp tube rolling was to alter the tone of the Mark V to eliminate the top end ice pick on CH3. For most to the use of the V I always had to set gain, treble, presence and even midrange to 10 o-clock or less, could not even use the preset EQ settings as my ears cannot tolerate that level of pain. All of which has nothing to do with the bias on the power tubes or the fact it is a Simul-Class vs Class A/B. I ruled that out by slaving the Roadster from the FX loop of the Mark V (before I knew there was a line level difference but did have to drop the send level all the way, also passed the signal though an effects pedal so that became the sacrificial lamb in the event of ground fault). The end result, amp did not sound any different though the Roadster power section as it did though the Mark V power section.

I have played though a new Mark V at the same time I tried the TC-50 (after I bought the JP-2C). That V sounded great and I could actually dial in a decent tone. Mine is a 2012 model and does have the tone stack update. Wonder what is different... no big deal.

There is something to give merit to the Mark V that the other amps just cannot imitate, the clean channel. Nice, articulate, pristine. It is not too warm or drowns in loose bottom end and not too bright either. Has a dry character to it that is unparalleled and is really enhanced with an open back cab or combo format. I could get used to the MC90 but the tone shaping of that speaker in particular just does not enhance the Mark V experience. Perhaps if you use the 4 ohm output the tone of the amp does change a bit. I have gone though many speakers thus far and I have returned to the tried and true EVM12L Black Label. Due to the large magnet and 2inch voice coil, that speaker is surprisingly sensitive enough for low level playing without tone loss or change in tone. Other speakers may have sounded better on the clean channel but for overall performance the EV just blows them away on CH2 and CH3 and does not crap out or breakup at higher volume levels. Unfortunate that the EV is not a drop in as the mounting screws are too short and the large basket does pose tube replacement challenged if rear mounted. Front mounting is the preferred method but not for the novice as the grill frame needs to be modified for clearance of the thick speaker frame. Baffle needs to be sanded out to allow for the speaker basket to fit. (not much sanding required).

I would say that my Mark V is now at a performance level that would put the Mark III combo to shame, can hang with a full band just as a combo, and the saturation mod (change V4 to 12AT7 NOS JAN/Phillips) was the needed thing for me to have interests in keeping the amp. I am finally happy with what had started out as a head got transformed into a combo such that I have full flexibility to use the amp in any format at the cost of the added weight a combo brings to your back vs a head and speaker cabinet.

 

[bandit2013]

A few things have changed.... I have been thinking about an additional cabinet so I have one for the JP-2C. I can manage with what I have but for the reduced volume intent, the Vertical 212 cab has sufficed quite well. Actually there is nothing wrong with the 412 cabs I have at my disposal but for most of the time I do not require that level of loudness. So what options are there really? Considering the output potential of the JP-2C ,manual states 100Wrms but what does that mean actually? Without writing out a mathematics lesson how to calculate RMS and where the theory comes from, along with what frequency is used to measure the RMS value as there are many standards used to determine the power rating of both amps and speakers. The bottom line is this, the JP-2C will pump out 150Wrms Peak Power, or at least that is what the attenuator I have used is indicating. I believe most of this power is in the lower frequencies as should be the case. Compared to a 100W class A/B amp such as the Roadster or RA100 I have only seen the peak RMS power never jumps beyond 100W. Power supply sag may be the what is preventing the output from peaking higher than 100W rms. (the meter on the attenuator indicates RMS power so I am assuming it is what it is but as with anything it is just a reference and should not be considered a calibrated instrument).

Side track....
Here is an interesting fact on the Mark V..... a while back I had to change a resistor on the bias circuit just so I could run Mesa tubes without red plating. I had issues with the amp early on and kept killing tubes. I should have sent the amp in for service under warranty but I let it slide as the SED =C= 6L6GC tubes never failed with the amp as-is. That only lasted for a few years and now SED is no more... Only option was to reduce the bias just a small amount. Trial an error seemed to be one option as I do not have any bias probes to check conditions at the tubes. So I started with 100K and felt the result was a bit weak, sort of flabby bottom end. Changed the resistor to a 91K (actual resistance measured 89.4K) that that worked out quite well. After that and a few recording sessions I noticed the peak power on the attenuator was jumping up to 110Wrms. Not too long ago I decided to restore the bias circuit back to its original state or as close as I could get to the 82.5k resistor. Just by adding a 1M resistor brought the parallel impedance with the 89k resistance to 83k. The end result was voice coil crashing on the MC90 Speaker (I put that in at the same time I changed bias to see if there was any notable difference). Reason for all of this... I was going to record the different tones acquired with different speakers. Since I decided to employ the attenuator for this purpose I discovered why the MC90 was not having a good time, the meter was peaking at maximum 150Wrms just like the JP-2C. I did manage to get a recording of three speakers (Celestion Red Back G12H-150, EVM12L black lable, and the Organic Timbre Rhapsody G12F). After that I decided to go back to what I set the bias to be by simply removing the 1Meg resistor. Now I have a better understanding why the MC90 was popping the cork and more than likely it is damaged (will find that out later).

Now to the reason behind bringing this up to date.... Organic Timbre Rhapsody G12F. It is more than just another EV clone, just like the other contenders out there that have come up with their own version of the EV classic speaker. Eminence has many to chose from in their Signature line PF-350, Hempdog 12, in their Legend Series Legend EM12, and then there are several in the Pro Audio line up Delta pro 12A and many others. Not too long ago someone posted a thread in Mark V regarding the Organic Timbre. That was new news to me so I had to get one and find out for myself how it sounds. The only ideal location to mount one was in the Mark V combo.

I am blown away by it with the Mark V. So what is next, had to run the JP-2C though it and that was it for me, I had identified what was coming next. Ordered a 1x12 wide body extension cab (open back) from the Hollywood Mesa store which finally arrived this past Friday. The additional Organic Timbre Rhapsody G12F came in a day before. Needless to say I had to try out the cab as is with the stock MC90 with the Mark V, not sure why I did this as I assumed it would not sound any different than the Mark V combo. I could not have been so wrong. I am impressed with the tone of the wide body cab with the MC90 and it was a shame to remove it.

More power please... JP-2C would make mince meat of the 90W core of the MC90. Since the speaker is still in prime condition I can repurpose it in a 412 cab or use it some other day. Also had to run though the gambit of other amps that were suitable for the 90W rating. Definitely a win for the Mark V. I would have stopped there if I had the MC90 in the combo and decide on looking else where for the speaker for the JP-2C (would have settled on the Vert 212 and having two of those would be cool ). Finally mounted the Organic Timbre G12F into the extension cab. Rear mounted as the grill frame is quite invasive around the baffle hole. I used a 6 screw mounting method (top and bottom screws were omitted as I was not willing to mod the frame to provide clearance for the two screws). Holy crap does that sound huge. I will break in the speaker a bit with the Mark V before releasing the cabinet purpose for use with the JP-2C. Easily a 1x12 cab to go with the JP-2C that is easier on the back and arms than having a JP-2C combo amp. Note that the Organic Timbre Rhapsody is 2 lbs heavier than the EV speaker. Not that it matters much in a 1x12 cab. Once I get the speaker broken in I may do a recording or may just end up working on a project as I am filling my soundcloud account with test recordings. That is getting a bit stale.

 

[bandit2013]

I have spend some time with the 1x12 extension cab with the OTR mounted in it with the JP-2C. For some reason the open back cab is missing the aggressive punch the JP-2C deserves. It is not bad at all if you are looking for more subdued volume levels as would always be the case with a single 12 inch speaker vs a 212 or 412. I feel the OTR is better served with the Mark V as the different tone from that amp is complemented quite well and overall satisfaction is more than pleasing. I have tried several combinations of speakers of what I currently have available from the speaker mounted in the Mark V combo combined with the ORT in the 1x12, to the EV mounted speaker in another 1x12 with the OTR, then then finally the ideal solution to the JP-2C which is the Mesa Vertical 212 paired with the Mesa Horizontal 212. Best overall sound so far is the two 212 cabs running in parallel. That has got to be the most aggressive tone I have heard yet. The Vertical 212 by itself is a superior solution to the 1x12 idea. The depth in tone as well as the balance of midrange and controlled top end serves up a better tone than what I could get from an open back cab with an EV or the OTR. This would include the OS Recto 412 cab loaded with EV or V30 as I have both of these options. The EV loaded 412 is ideal compared to that of the V30 loaded 412. Odd that the 412 does not have as much of a bottom end when compared to the horizontal or vertical 212 cab. It is almost tempting to order a closed back 1x12 to complete a comparison but why go there when getting another horizontal 212 would be the ideal solution for optimal aggressive tone that cannot be duplicated.

At least the money invested in the 1x12 and OTR was not in vain as I have run that with the Mark V combo and found myself bonding with the pair of speakers. In some respects I was considering getting some more OTR to swap out two in the EV loaded 412 but at the moment I will digress into what is known to be ideal which is either getting another Vertical 212 or another Horizontal 212. That will be the next debate but I feel having two of either would be awesome compared to having only one.

 

[bandit2013]

The speaker balloon has inflated even further. So far with what I have available, the Vertical 212 is just the best overall with both JP-2C and the TC-50. After struggling with ear fatigue going from cabinet to cabinet, 212, 112, 412 and back they are all beginning to sound the same and my ears are ringing. I believe I am coming to the conclusion on the OTR as it may not be the best speaker for the JP-2C. Now after killing my hearing all I hear is top end though the OTR when I ran the Mark V. No bottom end. So for Now I will retire the OTRs as I may stuff then in the OS Recto cab with the EV speakers and resort to stock speakers on the Mark V combo and the 1x12 extension cab. This part of the learning process can be expensive. I do like the OTR but I don't. To be honest, the MC90 sounded much better in the 1x12 extension cab. I will have to check the one I had bought for the combo and see if I killed the voice coil, if not I may install it in the Mark V again or go back to the Redback as that speaker is fun with the Mark V.

Never mind, just changed the OTR with Redback and now going back to the OTR. Ouch... my knees are killing me along with my ears. Keep the Mark V combo as is with the OTR speaker. Will have to revisit the JP with the 1x12 with some more time on the clock as the speaker is not fully broken in yet. Still a second Vertical 212 is in order as I do not like tearing down amps to swap heads. Besides I want two of the vertical 212 cabs anyway as that would be too cool to run two though the JP-2C and by itself has the best overall tone and character. The 1x12 I can get most of the JP tone at a reduced volume so all good. Keep it as is.

 

[bandit2013]

Back again with the OTR in the Mark V. Yeah I know this is in the JP-2C forum. About that speaker I mounted in the 112 extension open back cab, it never got changed and is still there. Took another stab at it and realized it was where I had the speaker that made the difference. I had it right in my face as I like to sit when I play (not very exciting to most but I do not have an audience, including the dog as he runs out of the room the second I turn on the power switch). I had move the 112 cab to a lower position and was rewarded with what I heard before when I ran the JP into the Mark V combo speaker (OTR). I have to be patient as this is still a green speaker and needs to be worked a bit more during its break in period. It did not take long for the other OTR to shine so I can be patient and it has been rewarding experience (at times frustrating but know I know what I was doing that made me feel that way )

Now it gets better, just the 112 cab with the JP I am getting so close to the sound of the Vertical 212 cab as long as the speaker is not in my face. I can play though that thing all day and just about did so. Still debating on getting another Vertical 212 so I can use either TC-50 and JP-2C at any point or for that dark punch run two vertical 212 from the JP-2C.

No more chasing the balloon for me, I think the OTR is a win with the JP-2C just as much as the Vertical 212 is, I guess I can include the OS Recto loaded with the EV as well. It just depends on how much I can tolerate. Also the OTR is sounding much better every time I run though it so I expect it will be on par with the one I have in the Mark V combo soon enough as that one rocks. Also note: I did go back to the Red Back and thought that speaker was terrible. It was great for a while but may be better off in a closed back cab. So this time moving forward I am sticking with the OTR.