Mark V Gain?

[kippiejr]

Anybody else have this issue.

I have several Mark III's, a IIC+, a IV and a V. I do not need to boost any of the earlier heads. The gain is enough especially the early III's and IIC+ and the Mark IV is straight up METAL!..

My Mark V, I can not get the same saturation "boogie" drive like my earlier models. It is close, but If I boost it slightly with any drive pedal I get there. The EXTREME goes over the top and not a "boogie" drive. The best is Mark IV mode with one of many drive pedals, most with very low drive and about half way up on the level knob.

If I set the knob a la John Petrucci video for Mark V settings, It is not the same drive or gain. If I add the boost I am..

Is it time to start rolling preamp tubes? I have tried everything else. Equal settings from earlier heads, gain knobs pegged.

Mine you, I am using a Ernie Ball JP6 and 7 or earlier ESP's with EMG's and Gibson SG's. All these guitars and earlier boogies are awesome.

I love the Mark V's clean and other options. But where is that "boogie" drive...?

 

[ricorocks]

Tone comes from your hands my friend, and also an awesome axe besides an awesome amp..

 

[kippiejr]

OK agreed,, what does that have to do with my Mark V not having enough Drive. I just got done explaining all my other Boogies do.
O'yeah all played with the same hands... and guitars

 

[screamingdaisy]

The current stock preamp tubes are JJ ECC83.

When doing comparisons I've always found JJs to be darker (i.e., smoother/less aggressive) and generally lower in gain than New Sensor tubes (Sovtek, EHX, Tung Sol, etc).

Your mileage may vary.

 

[alboz28]

I experienced the same thing - Here is my story - I hope it helps...

I was feeling a little underwhelmed with my Mark V regarding Channel 2 in Crunch Mode and somewhat in Channel 3 in Mark IV mode. I just seemed that it was lacking something, and after watching the Mesa Doug West demo on YouTube, I thought to myself hmmm... my amp does not sound like that. So after many overdrive pedal experiments, I just could not understand why I could not get the sound I wanted.
I used to have a Mesa Studio Preamp and it had all the gain and punch you could imagine, but why didn't my Mark V sound the same or even better!! Anyway long story short, after researching about preamp tubes I purchased and replaced V1, V2, V3 and V7. I now get great crunch and clarity on Channel 2 and liquidy smooth saturation on Channel 3 Mark IV mode. It really did make a world of difference. I had to turn the gain back on both channels and re-tweak my settings. The Treble and Presence Controls now have a much better response than they did prior to the swap. Overall it really brought out everything I was looking for. While this selection may not be for everyone, this is the tube cocktail I used:

V1 = Mesa SPAX7
V2 = JJ Hi Gain
V3 = Ruby Hi Grade
V4 = Stock
V5 = Stock
V6 = Stock
V7 = Sovtek 12AX7LPS

Thanks again for your help and I hope maybe this selection might be the answer to others as well !

 

[kippiejr]

Yeah I figured I need to do some preamp tube rolling.. I have some of the mentioned, others I have ordered. Maybe my stock tubes in the more important slots are just below average and not high gain for sure... Not all tubes are created equal... Some.. even stock are good and bad.. Have you seen the stock Mesa/JJ preamp tubes. While I get the microphonics part but the plate is the smallest I have ever seen in a 12ax7. O'yeah, I have several Mesa and JJ tubes and even SPAX7-A.. I cut the shrink wrap off the SPAX7 and compared all three tubes. They visually look the same in every way under a magnification and tested the same on my Dyno tube tester. I think the SPAX7 shrink wrap is like a damper ring for micro phonics therefore making it a better V1 tube? I mean the tiniest grey plate I have ever seen would make it really stable, but lack gain for sure?

 

[mesa metal]

there is a lot of info in the 'tubes' section of the forum......i have gain like theres no tomorrow and the clarity of all threee channels is awesome..... 8)

 

[screamingdaisy]

Yeah I figured I need to do some preamp tube rolling.. I have some of the mentioned, others I have ordered. Maybe my stock tubes in the more important slots are just below average and not high gain for sure... Not all tubes are created equal... Some.. even stock are good and bad.. Have you seen the stock Mesa/JJ preamp tubes. While I get the microphonics part but the plate is the smallest I have ever seen in a 12ax7. O'yeah, I have several Mesa and JJ tubes and even SPAX7-A.. I cut the shrink wrap off the SPAX7 and compared all three tubes. They visually look the same in every way under a magnification and tested the same on my Dyno tube tester. I think the SPAX7 shrink wrap is like a damper ring for micro phonics therefore making it a better V1 tube? I mean the tiniest grey plate I have ever seen would make it really stable, but lack gain for sure?

SPAX7s are stock Mesa tubes that produced particularly low noise when tested.

It's not an indication that they sound better... just that they produce less noise.

 

[ricorocks]

Well throw in a quad of El34's and you'll be happy, more gain than you'll ever need, unless you're into death metal.....

 

[Heritage Softail]

Anybody else have this issue.

I have several Mark III's, a IIC+, a IV and a V. I do not need to boost any of the earlier heads. The gain is enough especially the early III's and IIC+ and the Mark IV is straight up METAL!..

My Mark V, I can not get the same saturation "boogie" drive like my earlier models. It is close, but If I boost it slightly with any drive pedal I get there. The EXTREME goes over the top and not a "boogie" drive. The best is Mark IV mode with one of many drive pedals, most with very low drive and about half way up on the level knob.

If I set the knob a la John Petrucci video for Mark V settings, It is not the same drive or gain. If I add the boost I am..

Is it time to start rolling preamp tubes? I have tried everything else. Equal settings from earlier heads, gain knobs pegged.

Mine you, I am using a Ernie Ball JP6 and 7 or earlier ESP's with EMG's and Gibson SG's. All these guitars and earlier boogies are awesome.

I love the Mark V's clean and other options. But where is that "boogie" drive...?

I sold my MKV for that reason. I put in =C= power tubes, bought some EL34's, rolled thru a few preamp tubes. I later bought a MKIIC and am back to happy. I love my Recto too.

The MKV is good at many things but great at nothing IMO. But opinions vary wildly and thats why there are so many amp builders. I also used a JP6 with the MKV. It is a guitar the MKIIC loves.

Nothing wrong with saying a particular amp model does not float your boat.

 

[SteveO]

Well throw in a quad of El34's and you'll be happy, more gain than you'll ever need, unless you're into death metal.....

The "gain" (referring to overdrive/distortion) in Mark amps comes almost entirely from the preamp. Swapping the power tubes to EL34s will make it sound different, but it won't increase the preamp gain of the amp at all.

 

[ricorocks]

El34's will sound/are more compressed and saturated sounding, you know your classic british voicing (marshall) maybe..that has nothing to do with Mark's Tone. that's why they lend themselves better for soloing, there's a more liquid feel to the strings, not as tight as 6L6's, but there is a difference in gain . i know cause' i tried them both, and my ears DON'T LIE... besides i bought a mark cause i love it's TONE, if i wanted a fully saturated sounding amp i would of got a Recto or Diezel herbert or maybe Marshall. why try to make something that you bought because you love it that way, turn into something different?!? you should of just got a HIGH gain amp to start with. the "V" is all about Clarity, definition Articulation Tone and GAIN, more than enough in my opinion :wink: