Mark series amps lead tone comparisons criticism: can we really?

[shredgd]

Hello everyone,

this post is to give you my comment on Mark amps lead tone comparisons and to hear the same from you.

I recently acquired a Mark V 90W head. In the past I tried a Mark V:35 combo, a JP2C, a red stripe Mark III combo and I also had a Triaxis for some years.

I have both read and watched a lot of Mark series amps comparisons and, owning one now, I feel the urge to share the following thoughts.

When comparing lead channel tones, you can often read descriptions like “nothing beats a Mark IIc+” or “the Mark III tone is the best” or “the Mark IV was the best”. And you can actually watch/hear some comparisons where you can indeed spot some differences (not always a “better” or “worse” difference, by the way).

Now, we all know that the graphic eq in the channel 3/lead tone of Mark amps is the real tone-shaper, because of its very late position in the preamp circuit. We also all know how touchy those sliders are, with a little movement going a long way in changing the final tone. I fine-tuned a lead tone that I love, using it, and if you’re reading this and own a Mark amp, you probably did as well, and took pictures/note of the “magic setting” for your setup.
But whenever I move the graphic eq sliders to try something different, I will never get the EXACT tone back, when I put the sliders in the previously dialed position. Although the new tone is still in the ballpark (probably ear adaptation plays a role as well), because of this I am actually scared to move them for whatever reason, and scared when I see my 3-years-son getting by it…
Now, if I cannot really dial my amp back exactly, after moving those powerful eq controls, can we really trust comparison videos or, even worse, written comparisons of experiences with different Mark amps but in different configurations (head + cab vs. combo), different eq sliders resistance tolerances, different speakers, different places, different times, maybe different guitars? Do you always hear your tone the same from one day to another? I don’t! Sometimes it’s gorgeous, sometimes it’s just ok, sometimes it’s so so. Our mood, and maybe room humidity/temperature and AC voltage variations in our houses probably play a role, too!

So, after I finally got my Mark V, and having a lot of fun with the channel 3, I am very very skeptical I can miss anything from a real IIC+ or III or IV that a millimeter movement of the graphic eq sliders can’t achieve!

Just my two cents, of course!

Giulio

 

[spawnofthesith2]

I have a V and a IV and I used to have a read stripe III. People that claim that the V doesn't sound as good as previous versions are loons IMO. They're all excellent amps and the V is no exception

 

[Chase42147]

That's a really interesting point! The only Mark I've played through is my V 90w head. I had one fantastic tone that sounded good for everything, lead and rhythm. Moved a few sliders around and I haven't gotten back to my tone since. It's endlessly annoying, lol.

And your point about tone changing day to day is very noticeable on the V. Some days it makes guitar playing painful, the next I can't put down the guitar.

 

[rarebitusa]

And your point about tone changing day to day is very noticeable on the V. Some days it makes guitar playing painful, the next I can't put down the guitar.

I'll admit early on it was somewhat the same for me. But fortunately and TBH not sure why, it has become more consistent and repeatable. Ever since going to it as my live amp and setting it up in a number of different venues, with the same cab it's been sonically consistent. I had my concerns but so far so good.

 

[user 83127]

The inconsistencies you are talking about from day to day are not the amp at all....They are your local power fluctuating....TRUST ME I HAD THIS ISSUE FOR YEARS>>>>>Decades even....and here is what I finally did...go buy a variac and set your input power daily (I set mine at about 119v and when the power is on full it will drop to about 117v...my sweet spot...my local power fluctuates between 114 and 125...massive swings that you CAN HEAR)...this stops this ****)...this will stop the inconsistencies you are hearing from day to day...and as for not being able to dial in the same tone because of the eq....??????? mine never did that and I have had a Studio Pre....Triaxis Rev2, Mark IVB (currently own) and a Mark V 90 watt (currently own)...I use an off board eq also...but the onboard works (My setup lends to using the outboard eq because the Mark iv is difficult to get an eq for both channels of a stereo config due to where they put the eq on that amp.)...the V has the eq pre loop so it is easier to integrate in to stereo setup. (the inconstancy issue is common to ALL tube amps and the fix is good for all amps)

 

[Chase42147]

I'll admit early on it was somewhat the same for me. But fortunately and TBH not sure why, it has become more consistent and repeatable. Ever since going to it as my live amp and setting it up in a number of different venues, with the same cab it's been sonically consistent. I had my concerns but so far so good.

Hmm that's strange! Awesome that it became more consistent though. Maybe mine will do the same eventually lol

 

[rarebitusa]

Maybe mine will do the same eventually lol

Man I hope so... give it a stern talking to

 

[shredgd]

The inconsistencies you are talking about from day to day are not the amp at all....They are your local power fluctuating....TRUST ME I HAD THIS ISSUE FOR YEARS>>>>>Decades even....and here is what I finally did...go buy a variac and set your input power daily (I set mine at about 119v and when the power is on full it will drop to about 117v...my sweet spot...my local power fluctuates between 114 and 125...massive swings that you CAN HEAR)...this stops this ****)...this will stop the inconsistencies you are hearing from day to day...and as for not being able to dial in the same tone because of the eq....??????? mine never did that and I have had a Studio Pre....Triaxis Rev2, Mark IVB (currently own) and a Mark V 90 watt (currently own)...I use an off board eq also...but the onboard works (My setup lends to using the outboard eq because the Mark iv is difficult to get an eq for both channels of a stereo config due to where they put the eq on that amp.)...the V has the eq pre loop so it is easier to integrate in to stereo setup. (the inconstancy issue is common to ALL tube amps and the fix is good for all amps)

As you can read above, I already mentioned the AC fluctuations in my post… and yes, I meant that’s a problem we have with any tube amp, not Mark-specific. I really believe air humidity levels also have an impact, though.
Thanks for joining in this conversation.

Giulio

 

[Nandrewjackson]

I'm in indiana, USA, we get humidity fluctuations 30% to 100%, and high fluctuations in barometer, and lots of farms, pollen, dust. I really think they affect the sound that I hear from the amp. I know 100% they affect truss rods. I haven't done any log keeping about good/bad sound days, I'll just go ahead and believe it.

 

[spawnofthesith2]

Barometric fluctuation affects our ears themselves too

 

[user 83127]

As you can read above, I already mentioned the AC fluctuations in my post… and yes, I meant that’s a problem we have with any tube amp, not Mark-specific. I really believe air humidity levels also have an impact, though.
Thanks for joining in this conversation.

Giulio

WELL>>>>what YOU missed is I gave you THE solution...and humidity plays ABSOLUTELY ZERO PART in this conversation. Sorry, but I live in WATERTOWN NEW YORK>>>>we have MASSIVE humidity fluctuations and since I put a variac in my system I have ZERO complaints....ZERO issues and ZERO problems getting and maintaining the tone I want...after I said DECADES of this issue myself. I currently own and use a Marshall TSL 100, Mesa Mark V 90 watt and a Mark IVB, (with a 6505 MH in the closet...I should use that as the caps WILL go bad from disuse.) The only concession I will give to the humidity point is it MAY have some bearing on the power fluctuations....as humidity can affect MASSIVE power distribution systems not only in the impact of moisture but in the INCREASED DEMAND from consumers on those days...that alone would account for some of the bad tones on those days!!!! (the other I put down to you guys just cannot play or hear on odd days of the week...LMAO)

 

[spawnofthesith2]

WELL>>>>what YOU missed is I gave you THE solution...and humidity plays ABSOLUTELY ZERO PART in this conversation. Sorry, but I live in WATERTOWN NEW YORK>>>>we have MASSIVE humidity fluctuations and since I put a variac in my system I have ZERO complaints....ZERO issues and ZERO problems getting and maintaining the tone I want...after I said DECADES of this issue myself. I currently own and use a Marshall TSL 100, Mesa Mark V 90 watt and a Mark IVB, (with a 6505 MH in the closet...I should use that as the caps WILL go bad from disuse.)

Humidity does have an impact on the travel of soundwaves. This is a very basic law of physics and not really up for debate


That said, obviously power supply will have a much more significant impact on the tone of an amp

 

[Chase42147]

Man I hope so... give it a stern talking to

Lol, "If you can't play nicely, you're never getting plugged in again"

 

[Dave47857]

I'm in indiana, USA, we get humidity fluctuations 30% to 100%, and high fluctuations in barometer, and lots of farms, pollen, dust. I really think they affect the sound that I hear from the amp. I know 100% they affect truss rods. I haven't done any log keeping about good/bad sound days, I'll just go ahead and believe it.

I also live in Indiana and I have to say that humidity has a big effect on a lot of things but I also wonder about the draw on the electric grid because it seems like my amps sound better after 9 pm and sound like crap when it’s scorching hot. I have no proof but just my observations. North central Indiana btw.

 

[GJgo]

Amps like the Mark V and Mark VII you can listen to demos and pretty much know what you're going to get. They're fairly 2 dimensional.

Amps like the Mark IIC+, SLO, and Wizard you'll never understand the hype until you play one because it's about how they feel when playing. These amps are 3 dimensional.

As far as all these qualitative observations on tone, if you want to know, set up a reamp situation where you can record a reamped track under the two conditions in question. Then level match & splice up in a DAW, listen back as a blind test on good speakers, and THEN see if you can tell a difference. Every supposition short of this regarding tone is colored by opinion and differences in ears.

Feel, unfortunately, mics don't pick up and you just have to play two amps back to back to get it.

 

[user 83127]

Humidity does have an impact on the travel of soundwaves. This is a very basic law of physics and not really up for debate


That said, obviously power supply will have a much more significant impact on the tone of an amp

What isnt up for debate is your take...get the variac THEN come back and run your mouth!!!

 

[spawnofthesith2]

What isnt up for debate is your take...get the variac THEN come back and run your mouth!!!

It's not a take, it's a law of the physical universe that you are trying to deny. Do you think the earth is flat too?

If you actually read my post you'd see that I was agreeing with you that the power coming out of the wall would have a much more significant impact on tone than humidity

But it doesn't change the FACT that humidity has an impact on the travel of soundwaves which in turn can affect what we hear coming out of an amp. Pick up a book some time

 

[user 83127]

It's not a take, it's a law of the physical universe that you are trying to deny. Do you think the earth is flat too?

If you actually read my post you'd see that I was agreeing with you that the power coming out of the wall would have a much more significant impact on tone than humidity

But it doesn't change the FACT that humidity has an impact on the travel of soundwaves which in turn can affect what we hear coming out of an amp. Pick up a book some time

I AM TELLING YOU>>>>I used to think the same things...I USED TO BELIEVE humidity might have played a part...I AM ALSO TELLING YOU IT DOES NOT IN THIS CASE!!!! THICK HEADED MUCH? Please....the facts are what they are...humidity affects a ton of things in the guitar world....your truss rod....the tension on the strings (BECAUSE OF THE TRUSS ROD)./...the way your guitar resonates can even be affected by this (depending on your finish...the guitar might even take up more moisture and behave slightly differently....)...I am telling you that your TUBES ARE NOT AFFECTED BY ANY OF THIS>>>>>THEY ARE VACUUMS>>>>OR DONT YOU KNOW WHAT THAT ACTUALLY MEANS?!!?!?!?!?!?!? The Power going into the tubes is affected by what was discussed earlier and CAN be negatively affected by humidity...NOT THE TUBES PAL!!!!!! THATS JUST PHYSICS OR DIDNT YOU GET PASSED HIGH SCHOOL?!?!!?? CONDESCENDING JERK OFF!!!!!

 

[Chase42147]

I AM TELLING YOU>>>>I used to think the same things...I USED TO BELIEVE humidity might have played a part...I AM ALSO TELLING YOU IT DOES NOT IN THIS CASE!!!! THICK HEADED MUCH? Please....the facts are what they are...humidity affects a ton of things in the guitar world....your truss rod....the tension on the strings (BECAUSE OF THE TRUSS ROD)./...the way your guitar resonates can even be affected by this (depending on your finish...the guitar might even take up more moisture and behave slightly differently....)...I am telling you that your TUBES ARE NOT AFFECTED BY ANY OF THIS>>>>>THEY ARE VACUUMS>>>>OR DONT YOU KNOW WHAT THAT ACTUALLY MEANS?!!?!?!?!?!?!? The Power going into the tubes is affected by what was discussed earlier and CAN be negatively affected by humidity...NOT THE TUBES PAL!!!!!! THATS JUST PHYSICS OR DIDNT YOU GET PASSED HIGH SCHOOL?!?!!?? CONDESCENDING JERK OFF!!!!!

I think your caps lock button is spazzing out

 

[bandit2013]

I wouldn't touch it with a 10 ft pole.

Everything can be an impact on how we hear things.

What influences sound pressures created by the speaker:

• Relative humidity, this is more of an issue if you are playing outdoors than indoors in a small room. Still, having high relative humidity indoors is not a good thing. Time to invest in some sort of dehumidification system, whole house or a portable unit.
• Barometric pressure is more of an issue at elevations above sea level. Still that can affect how sound travels in the air.
• Air density and temperature. Sure that also ties into relative humidity too.
• Geographical location: Are you at sea level or are you located at a higher altitude? The elevation of you location can and will be influenced more so by barometric pressure changes.

The body influences:

• Allergies
• Ear fatigue
• Mood

The obvious:

• Power fluctuations, depends on how that shift occurs, if it is a slow change, you may notice it. As long as you are not running below 110VAC things will be fine. Over 125VAC it gets a bit too rich. Get a power line conditioner if nothing else works.
• Location you have your amp. It may depend on the circuit of the outlet and what else is sharing that same circuit.
• Position in the room
• Guitar strings, if they are dirty or wearing out.
• Cables
• Overloaded speaker voice coils. Are they getting hot? ALNICO speakers are more prone to doing weird things especially if the magnetic driver heats up. Ceramic magnets are more stable.
• Active electronics, don't forget about the battery. Same for effects pedals that use battery power.
• Tubes, they do weird things as they age and wear out.

Some other influences that may not be related to the above. May not be your issue either, just making some general comments as always.

• Trolls make things sound far worse. May affect the mood, give you allergies.
• With some people, it may be the color of the guitar and if it has gold sparkles in the paint. I have to search for that post as I found it amusing.
• How much alcohol you consume when playing.
• How much drugs you do, was it a bad fix or a good one?
• Mushrooms

If you have a Mark IV or Mark V, both have some sort of power mode reduction: Mark IV it is called Tweed, on the Mark V90 it is called variac. If you are using that and you suspect there is some power fluctuations, try running the amp at full power instead. Add a line voltage conditioner or filter. That may help to some extent. Try a different electrical outlet in the room or try the amp in a different room that has power on a different circuit breaker.

I have a Mark V90, that amp never sounds the same on any given day or minute if I try to use it. I put it into retirement and forgot I have it. I do not have those issues with my other amps, if I do it more than likely is tube related and time to replace them. I can see how relative humidity can affect sound pressures, it is more so change in barometric pressure and air density changes. I do not live at high altitudes where I am located in NC. I did have more issues in PA as I was in the mountains, but never with the amp unless I was playing outside.