Mark IV output knob vs. master volume

[TPM]

Guys, hopefully this isn't a totally lame question, but I was wondering if any of you can tell me how the outupt knob works in relation to the master volume knobs, and how this works with the power section. In other words, I like the sound of the power tubes being overdriven...can I get that sound by maxing the master volume while also keeping the output knob low for bedroom use? Or is the output control the one that is finally sending all the juice to the power section, and it's the output knob you need to crank up to get that overdriven power tube sound. I'm getting closer to getting a Mark IV (I've played it twice at the Hollywood store) and just trying to get some more information. Thanks guys!

Tom in L.A.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

You could try cranking the Output knob, but I think you will find that if you turn it up too loud, the Master Volumes will be very touchy and you will have a very sharp loudness point. Meaning that you will have almost no Volume on the amp, and then it will be excruciatingly loud when the Master Volumes are turned past a certain point.

You might want to try only turning the Output knob half-way up.


I have 6V6's in my Mark IV, and I can get some serious tones at low Volumes. You might try this also. The 6V6's tend to breakup earlier than 6L6's.

I also really liked the low Volume tones that I got when using JJ E34L's in Triode and Class A.

Hope this helps.

 

[t0aj15]

On the Mk IV the gain controls determine how clean or distorted the signal from each of the preamp channels is going to be. The channel masters are for matching the three preamp channel signals before they are sent to the poweramp. The output level is a poweramp control that determines the overall output power. However the amount of dirt is ultimately determined by both the preamp section AND the poweramp section. Many people never really get to hear what the power amp has to offer simply because the amp is SOOO loud they never turn it that loud. But believe me there is some great tone at or above half way on the output knob. The best way to discover if you want the masters high and the output low, the masters low and the output high, or any combination of the two is to just experiment and see what you like, everyone is different.

 

[Boogiebabies]

On the Mk IV the gain controls determine how clean or distorted the signal from each of the preamp channels is going to be. The channel masters are for matching the three preamp channel signals before they are sent to the poweramp. The output level is a poweramp control that determines the overall output power. However the amount of dirt is ultimately determined by both the preamp section AND the poweramp section. Many people never really get to hear what the power amp has to offer simply because the amp is SOOO loud they never turn it that loud. But believe me there is some great tone at or above half way on the output knob. The best way to discover if you want the masters high and the output low, the masters low and the output high, or any combination of the two is to just experiment and see what you like, everyone is different.

****, that was good. I always run my lead master low and crank the master. It is much fatter and browner. I also find the highs get blended much better and you get a fatter, rounder lead tone. In reverse, it can sound good, but the cut and high end are sharper with less natural bottom end. Both are great as it is like having two different amps.

 

[TPM]

Great guys, thanks alot! Yeah, it's hard to really get to hear that power amp in the store when you're trying it out...and I noticed that when the guys there show me the amp, they have that output knob VERY low, like 2 or 3. Anyway, thanks again...guess I'll just have to buy one to really experiment with it...

Tom

 

[AMG1]

I keep the output at 4. I run the channel masters lower. This way you get to hear more of the output section and your pushing not slamming the power amp with the preamp.

I always felt that running the output at 4 was the first step in getting really great sounds from a MKIV. IMO

 

[marklyn]

I agree. There's a spot on my Mark IV between 3 and 4 on the output where it just seems to come alive. It sounds good below that, but I like it much better around 4.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

How low are you guys running the Masters when the Output is at 4?

What type of room/venue are you playing it in?

What Power Tubes are you using?

What are the Triode/Pentode & the Simul/Class A switches set at?

This sounds very interesting. TPM mentioned Maxing the Output, it sounds like that would be overkill.

Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:41 am Post subject:

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On the Mk IV the gain controls determine how clean or distorted the signal from each of the preamp channels is going to be. The channel masters are for matching the three preamp channel signals before they are sent to the poweramp.

I asked Mike Wolfe at Mesa about the jump in Volume when switching between Rhy 1 & Rhy 2. He told me to set the Masters for each channel in roughly the same position to avoid this.

t0aj15
When you have the Masters set differently on yours, do you have a Volume swell when switching between these 2 channels, or does that only happen on the newer ones?

 

[AMG1]

Channel masters would be R1 3, R2 2, Lead 2 with the output at 4. Thats at home. Yes its loud but I play loud every where. This wont be whisper quite with a baby sleeping in the next room. Figure slightly less than if your practiceing with a drummer. With a band figure R2 and lead would be around 3 and R1 would be around 4 maybe 5. I'm using EH preamp tubes and Jan /Phillips 6L6's. Its definately not overkill. The amp really comes alive and sounds much bigger than using the output at 2. BTW its set at Penatode/silmu

 

[TPM]

Man, this is great, thanks for all the input guys. It's only been recently that I've come to realize the kind of distortion/overdrive sound I keep wanting to hear is the power tubes, not the preamp (although those are being pushed as well)...it happened when I was playing my SF Vibrochamp and I thought "I wonder what this thing sounds like turned up to 10"...anyway, thanks again, great to hear all this input. ****, I've just got to sell a couple more items and then the Mark IV will be mine....

Tom

 

[t0aj15]

t0aj15
When you have the Masters set differently on yours, do you have a Volume swell when switching between these 2 channels, or does that only happen on the newer ones?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by 'Volume swell' but there are other determining factors that come into play such as, whether you want a change in volume between channels, tone control settings (very important), and most importantly the type of guitar and pickups being used. That last factor alone will completely change almost all the settings on the entire amp if you go from say a Les Paul to a Stratocaster. There really are a great number of variables that go into each channels settings even before you get to the channel master/output knob mixing stage. I hope that makes sense to you.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

All settings are still the same except for the Gain & Masters for each channel.

I used a PRS, Warmoth Soloist, & several Strats (with humbuckers & singles in the Bridge).



What was happening is:
I had theGain for R2 at 2-3 and the Master turned up to about 6-7. R1 Gain was at 7-8 & the Master was at 4.

When I would switch from R1 to R2, I would get a Volume swell. There was no Volume swell when switching from R2 to R1.

After the swell ( 1/2 a second or so), the Volume of R2 would go to where it should have been, much lower.



After talking to Mike Wolfe, I placed the Master's settings closer together. This took care of the problem.

I had not found my sounds yet from the amp, so it didn't matter that I couldn't use certain settings. I would have been bummed if I had really liked the sounds at those settings though.

 

[t0aj15]

All settings are still the same except for the Gain & Masters for each channel.
I used a PRS, Warmoth Soloist, & several Strats (with humbuckers & singles in the Bridge).
What was happening is:
I had theGain for R2 at 2-3 and the Master turned up to about 6-7. R1 Gain was at 7-8 & the Master was at 4.
When I would switch from R1 to R2, I would get a Volume swell. There was no Volume swell when switching from R2 to R1.
After the swell ( 1/2 a second or so), the Volume of R2 would go to where it should have been, much lower.
After talking to Mike Wolfe, I placed the Master's settings closer together. This took care of the problem.
I had not found my sounds yet from the amp, so it didn't matter that I couldn't use certain settings. I would have been bummed if I had really liked the sounds at those settings though.

The volume swell problem doesn't sound right to me. I have similar settings on my amp except R1 & R2 are reversed, R1-gain is 3 master is 7, R2 gain is 5 master is 4, lead-gain is 8 master is 3, and I can jump back and forth between any of the channels with no volume swell whatsoever. I have never encountered a volume swell on any amp which leads me to believe there may be a problem there. As far as newer or older models I'm not sure what would be new or what would be old but mine is five years old.

 

[Boogiebabies]

I agree, but the LDR's and relays are not all going to switch at the same speed or take the same voltage. Some cannot take the big jump to the clean channel as well as others. I guess we are lucky.