Mark IV HATE!

[ajtooke]

I don't know if any of you here remember, but I had a big thread a little bit back on trying to get my Mark IV to sound good. I looked at all the suggestions, tried everything, tweaked to no end, switched power tubes, guitars, and I can't get the lead channel to sound even passable! I think of the nice Petrucci tones that people get out of this at low volume even, then listen to what I get - not even close.

I havent switched the speaker cabinet because I can't afford it, the preamp and power tubes are brand new JJ 12AX7 + 6L6 and then 2 Mesa 6L6 in the middle two power tube sockets. I understand that it's difficult to get the "perfect" sound with these amps, but with all the tweaking I've done I should be able to get something at least decent - but I can't.

Here are my settings:

lead gain - 7 to 8
treble - 7 to 8
bass - 2
mid - 4
presence - 0 to 3 pushed or pulled, tried it all
channel vol - 2.5
triode, class a, tweed - again, tried every combination
master - 2 for home, 5-6 + full power at gigs

I have this EXTREMELY harsh high end treble bite with the presence knob pushed in, but it sounds very muffled and dull with the knob pulled. I use an RG with dimarzio super distortion in the bridge and PAF pro in the neck, even with the smooth neck pickup I get a nasty high fizz all the time. My other guitar is a Schecter C-7 Hellraiser (EMG's) and that obviously doesn't sound any better, worse in fact. Volume doesn't help, I've had it cranked at shows a couple times and it gets worse there, because my harshness is magnified.

I'm honestly starting to wonder if it's possible to get a "dud" Mk IV! Or maybe I really do need to change the caps - I was informed in the other thread that it would help with bass flub in rhythm stuff and clean dynamics mainly - but my new concern is the obnoxious ear-piercing bite I always get. Is there anything else than can wear out and need changing in these old early 90's A-series Mark IV's? And can old capacitors cause sound problems like I'm getting?

Really appreciate the responses I get here, and I hope that there really is a problem with my IV or I'll have to get something else. But I can't imagine everyone here is in love with an amp that makes the nasty sound that I'm getting. I should add that my buddies Crate Blue Voodoo 150w gets a better high gain sound than this Mark IV - that should really clue you in that something's wrong (hopefully not me )

I'm not even that picky when it comes to tone :?

 

[Stonge]

Your problem is that piece of **** you are playing. Buy a REAL guitar to match the real amp you have. Or at least create some kind of balance!
High end amp + POS guitar = bad tone. I mean if you really love that guitar then change the pickups. You don't need a super distortion w/ an amp that is already super gainy. Turn down your tone on the guitar, use the 5band eq to pull frequencies out..I mean you are complaining about treble..yet you have it on 8 (I can't imagine what the 5band is set like). turn down the mids, presence knob even. And it really comes back to a thin oatmeal made guitar you are using. Get a reall piece of wood that will actually resonate, so you don't have to krank all the wrong knobs. The best solution for you; taking into consideration of the tone it seems like you want, is to sell the IV and buy a more "plug 'N play" style amps. Rectos, solidstate, crate. Or just quit playing guitar and take up wood working..where things are more planned out for you. LOL. j/k. Just have fun.

 

[mrd]

Try these adjustments:

On lead channel, turn the bass to 0, mids to 7 or 8 (the mid pot doesn't have much effect in the signal, so even cranking it might be a good idea, I usually run mine from 7 to 10). Said you have harsh **** comin' out? Lower your treble, it's the most powerful knob on the entire amp besides gain and volume. I usually run my treble at about 4-6 or 7 if I'm playing quietly or with the recording out feature.

Turn it to class A, triode and tweed power, set channel and output to 10, turn off the EQ for now. Play that. If you don't have a good tone coming from this then your ears are broken or your amp is.

If you can't play this loud then... why do you have a Mesa? :lol:

JK, but seriously... you have to crank this **** up man.. the tubes aren't even fucking breathing until you're at about 5 or 6 on the output, and also, you need to smash those power tubes HARD with a nice hot preamp signal which can only be achieved by cranking the channel volume as loud as you can manage.

Also, if you're into metal, run your presence at 0 and push it in, this will give you a nice, throaty and ballsy low end swirl and snarl that has to be heard to be believed.

What kind of cab do you play?

 

[Dan__O]

Find a guitar shop with a MK4, and take yours in to compare it. Then you'll know for sure.

 

[adrenaline junkie]

What kind of cab and speakers are you using?

There's nothing wrong with the guitars you're playing and while Mesa's do sound best turned up, they usually sound great at lower volumes too.


Keep tweaking with the EQ, find some settings on forums and set yours to that then tweak from there.

If you're using a POS cab with **** speakers, I'd bet your problems are stemming from that.

Also, I hate JJ preamp tubes, maybe you do too? Try a few different brands in V1 for starters and see if that changes anything for you.

 

[eet fuk]

Something is wrong here. The mkiv is among the smoothest amps out there. If it weren't for the super bassy chunky tight metal palm mutes, I wouldn't be into this amp. I don't like smooth, I like grindy. The mkiv is the only exception for me, it is really smooth and creamy like a root beer float. Other amps would be like cokes and sprites. Play a 5150, or a british amp, then you'll know what I mean.
I'm betting the speakers play the biggest role in this catastrophy of yours. Also, since jjs are reputably warm tubes, you might be overcompensating with high treble on the amp, though your settings don't seem that different than everybody else's. I play an rg and sd, and I don't think it sounds thin at all, since I raise the action. Also, I think this amp shines with emgs as well.
That was a really good suggestion: try your amp next to a brand new store one or a friend's, then you'll know if your amp is screwed or not. In the mean time, I suggest trying your bandmates cab with your head, then you'll have an idea on speaker comparison. If you fail these, you don't like the mkiv, time to change amps.

 

[ajtooke]

Your problem is that piece of sh!t you are playing. Buy a REAL guitar to match the real amp you have. Or at least create some kind of balance!
High end amp + POS guitar = bad tone. I mean if you really love that guitar then change the pickups. You don't need a super distortion w/ an amp that is already super gainy. Turn down your tone on the guitar, use the 5band eq to pull frequencies out..I mean you are complaining about treble..yet you have it on 8 (I can't imagine what the 5band is set like). turn down the mids, presence knob even. And it really comes back to a thin oatmeal made guitar you are using. Get a reall piece of wood that will actually resonate, so you don't have to krank all the wrong knobs. The best solution for you; taking into consideration of the tone it seems like you want, is to sell the IV and buy a more "plug 'N play" style amps. Rectos, solidstate, crate. Or just quit playing guitar and take up wood working..where things are more planned out for you. LOL. j/k. Just have fun.

My buddies PRS Custom 24 is no different. Turning down the treble cuts fizz a bit, but also eliminates a ton of gain and chunk. The Hellraiser sustains for ages as well. And I mentioned nothing about the type of tone that I want, just that I can't get a good sound out of the Mark IV - good sound is a very broad range for me, like I said I'm not even that picky.

Try these adjustments:

On lead channel, turn the bass to 0, mids to 7 or 8 (the mid pot doesn't have much effect in the signal, so even cranking it might be a good idea, I usually run mine from 7 to 10). Said you have harsh sh!t comin' out? Lower your treble, it's the most powerful knob on the entire amp besides gain and volume. I usually run my treble at about 4-6 or 7 if I'm playing quietly or with the recording out feature.

Turn it to class A, triode and tweed power, set channel and output to 10, turn off the EQ for now. Play that. If you don't have a good tone coming from this then your ears are broken or your amp is.

If you can't play this loud then... why do you have a Mesa? :lol:

JK, but seriously... you have to crank this sh!t up man.. the tubes aren't even f%&# breathing until you're at about 5 or 6 on the output, and also, you need to smash those power tubes HARD with a nice hot preamp signal which can only be achieved by cranking the channel volume as loud as you can manage.

Also, if you're into metal, run your presence at 0 and push it in, this will give you a nice, throaty and ballsy low end swirl and snarl that has to be heard to be believed.

What kind of cab do you play?

I can and have played loud, just not at home. The EQ knobs have little effect on the harshness that I get, sure the sound changes but that irritating high end is always there - the treble control seems to adjust high frequencies even below the fizz and doesn't help anything. Presence pushed at 0-1 is what I run now.

I run it through a Mesa 3/4 back 1x12, and have used my buddies Crate 4x12 that matches his Blue Voodoo. With the 3/4 back I should at LEAST be able to get a nice smooth "Petrucci" lead sound if I can't get a heavy closed-back sounding rhythm but that doesn't work either.

Find a guitar shop with a MK4, and take yours in to compare it. Then you'll know for sure.

Actually I will be going to a local shop that carries Mesa tomorrow - I wanted to get some opinions on the possibility of needing to replace caps or something more than caps in an old amp.

What kind of cab and speakers are you using?

There's nothing wrong with the guitars you're playing and while Mesa's do sound best turned up, they usually sound great at lower volumes too.


Keep tweaking with the EQ, find some settings on forums and set yours to that then tweak from there.

If you're using a POS cab with sh!t speakers, I'd bet your problems are stemming from that.

Also, I hate JJ preamp tubes, maybe you do too? Try a few different brands in V1 for starters and see if that changes anything for you.

Cab is the Mesa 3/4 back 1x12 with a C90 as mentioned earlier. I don't use the graphic EQ most of the time, but have tweaked it extensively and it doesn't help my high end problem. I've tried a bunch of posted settings on here and used them as starting points but none really sound good.

I think you guys are getting the impression that I'm new to the amp - I've had it since September and have been tweaking it since then! I've had work done on it when a power tube took a fuse with it, I didn't feel like dealing with it so I had him fix that along with a bunch of other stuff that was pissing me off about it.

I appreciate the responses so far - I will let you know what I think about the Mk IV in the shop tomorrow, until then I'm not gonna worry about it. If it sounds the same then we'll all know I'm just an idiot :lol: Or just don't like the amp - but I doubt that as I LOVE most clips I hear of it in action.

 

[ajtooke]

Something is wrong here. The mkiv is among the smoothest amps out there. If it weren't for the super bassy chunky tight metal palm mutes, I wouldn't be into this amp. I don't like smooth, I like grindy. The mkiv is the only exception for me, it is really smooth and creamy like a root beer float. Other amps would be like cokes and sprites. Play a 5150, or a british amp, then you'll know what I mean.
I'm betting the speakers play the biggest role in this catastrophy of yours. Also, since jjs are reputably warm tubes, you might be overcompensating with high treble on the amp, though your settings don't seem that different than everybody else's. I play an rg and sd, and I don't think it sounds thin at all, since I raise the action. Also, I think this amp shines with emgs as well.
That was a really good suggestion: try your amp next to a brand new store one or a friend's, then you'll know if your amp is screwed or not. In the mean time, I suggest trying your bandmates cab with your head, then you'll have an idea on speaker comparison. If you fail these, you don't like the mkiv, time to change amps.

Missed this one, you pretty much summed up my thoughts. I've tried the Mk IV with my buddies Crate 4x12, but didn't get much time to compare because he showed up for practice like 5 minutes later, and I was more worried about a good rehearsal. Amp didn't even get time to warm up.. but yes, the compare idea was a good one

 

[Bshizzle]

Sounds like something may be wrong with yours mate, maybe have it checked out.

 

[Elpelotero]

What room are you playing in? My room tends to enhance super high frequencies a lot. But outdoors or in a big room it's no problem.

 

[6L6C]

Sounds like something may be wrong with yours mate, maybe have it checked out.

+1 Best advice!
You might not have one thing wrong it might be a combination of things. I seen were you mentioned the caps, I just had mine done last year and mine is a 93. There was an improvement in the sound and feel and it’s just good maintenance but the problems you are describing caps might help in one respect but they’re not going to solve all the problems that you are describing. Let someone go through the whole amp and then go from there.

 

[fpoon]

What is it with these threads lately? Keep trying, I got a C-7 and it sounds awesome through it, perhaps work on your technique.

 

[CoG]

Also, I hate JJ preamp tubes, maybe you do too? Try a few different brands in V1 for starters and see if that changes anything for you.

JJs are pretty much the "darkest" tubes out there, though, if he's hearing too much treble it's probably not the JJs.

I don't have a IV, but on my III there's so many ways to get gain that you can overdo it and things get harsh fast. My bandmate plugged his SG into it one day, same settings as I'd use, and the recordings sounded awful, really harsh; he just has the stock pups but they're up as high as they'll go so his output's real loud.

 

[MesieBooga]

Throw a Groove Tube 12ax7 M in V1.

 

[Shep]

I don't think it's th guitar.. i have a Jem and it's Great with my mk IV.. i think it's settings..treble to 6.. pull the fat.. push the bright and presence,run it tweed a class triode harmonics

What cab you using ? how is your EQ sett>?

 

[ajtooke]

What is it with these threads lately? Keep trying, I got a C-7 and it sounds awesome through it, perhaps work on your technique.

Good technique or bad, a low E power chord shouldn't sound like an ice pick drilling through my ear.

I don't think it's th guitar.. i have a Jem and it's Great with my mk IV.. i think it's settings..treble to 6.. pull the fat.. push the bright and presence,run it tweed a class triode harmonics

What cab you using ? how is your EQ sett>?

Your settings are pretty much exactly what I have, I keep the treble a bit higher to get the "chunk" sound for palm muted stuff on the low strings.

I knew my thread title would spark some controversy in here I'll let you guys know how the Mk IV in the shop sounds..

 

[Bourque]

It could be the amp is just not for you. Man everytime I'm done playing the thing I feel like I need a smoke... and I don't even smoke.

Could be where your standing? For live I tend to use higher treble settings of 8 but I have to set the cab back a bit further so that the sound can bloom naturally before it hits ears. If you're not mic'ed of course. But moving around in front of it seems like every time you move your head it sounds totally different. I think the further you get from it the more balanced it all sounds.

 

[VoodooChild24]

Try these settings NOW!!

 

[VoodooChild24]

And this one from Overdriven at HCAF.

 

[mrd]

What the ****. Sorry, but treble on 10 with gain and drive on 8? Who the hell made that ****?

Dude, if your low E power chord sounds like an ice pick fucking you in the ear then your amp is fucked. Get those caps done, check out a MKIV in the shop and get back to us. I think we've given you all the help we can for now.