Mark III tube swaps and misc musings (long!)

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edward

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Hi all,

Well this MKIII "honeymoon period" is starting to wear off now that I've lived with it for a few months. But playing it avidly in this short time, I've learned how to tweak it just so to get the right tones ...and the verdict is I am very impressed! This is one really versatile tone machine!! I am now convinced that those who think (and wrote to no end on other forums) the MKIII's shared eq limits it's usability or usefulness simply never spent the time to learn her ways. This is a true 3-channel amp ...more than just "usefull" but absolutely glorious tones are all there!

OK, so enough of my gushing; now to the specifics. From past experience with my tried-and-true DC5, I learned that an AT7 in the PI spot is the beginning of finding great tone. I have since then "zeroed in" on just the right tube recipe for my DC5 and, without doubt or hesitation, have an amp that I feel can easily hold its own with most anything out there.

But with the MKIII, I kept the mods simple, focusing instead on living with its "core tone" if you will in order to understand how each control interacts (which is a fascinating endeavor, really, with every dang pot a pull pot).

So that done, step one in the MKIII improvement program was a NOS RCA 12AT7 in the PI and V2 positions. This is a huge improvement in softening the hard edge of the R1/R2, and ridding the Lead of much of the grainy quality of the OD. Definitely a "must do" in my book.

Next step was R2 Volume mod ...so simple a mod, yet so useful. This, along with the aforementioned tube swaps, made the R2 a nice tonal voice I could actually use. I must confess that when I first got her, I thought the R2 was the grainiest, nasally sound and just couldn't understand how Mesa created such an abominable tone. No more!

Now for the topper: a pair of NOS Mullard CV4024 (12AT7s) added to the mix. I replaced the RCA AT7 in the V2 with the mullard, and also replaced the Mesa AX7 in the V3 with the other mullard. I took the NOS RCA AT7 that was in V2 and popped it into the PI. Wow!!! What slight "grain" that remained even after my first AT7 swap is now gone, and I am left with seriously smooth and creamy overdrive. No hyperbole: the Lead channel is amazing ...still full of punch and body, with superb mids that are clear. But indiv notes became more defined, and that high-end bite (almost shrill to my ears) is gone gone gone. I actually have my Presence up at 3 now, and its perfect for both R1 and Lead. The bottom also tightened up a bit ...not any "more" bass than before as much as it's better, more-focused thud. And adding more gain really made the OD sing with a saturated clarity that made me just want to keep playing.

Another surprise: turning down the Lead Drive to reduce saturation (for a looser "classic rock" vibe) now is muuuch creamier and musical than ever before.

Regarding cleans, the R1/R2 tones benefitted primarily from the PI change to the AT7. Replacing the V2 and V3 didn't do anything that I could hear in the R1, but the R2 did in fact get smoother with the mullard swap.

FWIW, I am a born skeptic, and am often the first to say mod x or gear y sucks, despite what I paid for it. So I'm in no way trying to justify any purchases here. Moreover, I initially bought the MKIII on a whim (and a good price), and upon first plugging in, was completely unimpressed. I was actually thinking of turning it around as I got her on the cheap. But now that I've learned it and "massaged" it for tone, this MK head is a definite keeper (yeah, like I "need" another amp!!). But the Mk is so rich sounding, and offers a slightly different palette than my DC5, I've just got to keep both.

So there you go. Thanks for indulging me and my musings. Of course all the above is IMHO, so take nothing for gospel. But to me, I have found a real winner in the unassuming little amp head!! Let the music commence!
:D

Edward
 
Thanks for the post!

I have some questions:

1. Which stripe?
2. Do you need graphic EQ to get good tones?

I bought my My Mark III Blue stripe 60 W in 1988 and it took some 15 years to find out that the good tones don't always need graphic EQ!
 
Edward,

Thank you for the update. I've been "riding your Mark III experimentation coattails" so to speak, and have found your findings to be exactly as you explain. I am a relative novice when it comes to understanding the technical aspects of amps, but that said, I know what tones I'm striving for out of each amp I own. Without your "musings" I'd still be a bit in the dark with the Mark III, although I've been able to find some good usable tones previously. I have many different stylistic interests as a guitarist, and probably approach the Mark III a little differently than many other Mark III users. Ultimately, I want the full range of all 3 channels available with improved clarity and smoothness at all gain levels. Okay, I want it all, right? :) Thanks to your posts, I feel my Boogie is absolutely amazing. Now I can't wait to try the Mullards.

Thanks again, and keep them coming!

Tim
 
Nice post Edward.

I happen to have a few RCA 12AT7's....and I really have to make time to try them in my Mark III ...humm... maybe this weekend :wink:
 
Thanks for the info .The AT7 should increase headroom between preamp and power section.

Regarding core tone though, I feel that the Mesa Mark 3 was meant to be played quite loud just like the old Marshall Super lead heads and Hiwatts were.

ANd even though my Mark3 blue stripe sounds a little harsher than a Mark 2C+ , I find that it records easier than the Mark 2C+ because the additional presence and character of the gain put it right in the pocket.

THis is similar to how a Shure SM57 sounds grainy compared to a Royer 121. BUt the SM57 is a studio standard mic because of where it puts your amp in the mix. The Royer sounds bigger and fatter by itself but in a mix, just wont sit like the Sm57 does.

But getting back on topic, I will try the AT7 in the PI. And I already have a telefunken 12ax7 in V1.
 
I have a later Green Stripe and I find it to be quite brown as a stock amp. The post 1990 III's did not use metal film for every resistor. I think this was a tremendous help in getting rid of some of that sharpness. My R2 is superb, but it can benefit from the R2 volume pot.

Great write up on the AT7. I have a NOS RCA, Westing House, JAN Phillips and Mullard AT7 that I have never had a use for. What the hell, I'll try it. Mine's been clipping so sweet lately it's like I own Vito Bratta's amp. I'm certain one of the preamp tubes is getting ready to die. :D
Tubes always sound so good with one foot in the grave.
 
Thanks for the kind words, guys!!

Mine is a Green Stripe Simul, with GEQ, no verb, mfg 8/89.

As to whether a GEQ is "necessary," there have been many a discussion on that point. I'd say no, and yes, depending. "No" if you want to dial in a great tone and play. But if you want to make your MKIII a usable 2 or 3 channel amp, the shared tone stack simply doesn't allow you to set a great clean tone (R1 or R2) AND a great Lead channel tone, IMHO. You will inevitably be compromising something on one to gain in the other. Enter the GEQ: it is your independent Lead Channel tone stack, plain and simple. As I intend to use mine live, I do need to channel switch. So I set a great clean tone first, then shape the Lead channel to taste.

Hi Tim,
Thanks for the generous sentiments! Yeah, there's nothing like experimentation yourself. FWIW, the Mullards aren't magic. I have a NOS-Mullard AX7 in the V1 on my DC5 and, frankly, can't tell a diff from the TungSol AX7 RIs (maybe that speaks well of the TS, eh?). Bottom line is each amp, and each v-spot, is different and while you can make some generalities about tube swaps, there simply is no substitute for swapping one tube/position at a time and hearing for yourself. You will find that some tube/slot combos suck, and others are indeed magical. Side note: I love my DC5 and she's definitely a keeper ...but this MKIII is so incredibly diverse (and I found myself really digging the R2's new voice) that I'm afraid I have to keep this one too. ;)

Great to hear from you BoogieB. Maybe you can give us an idea of how the various AT7s you have compare tonally. I simply went with the Mullard AT7s over my NOS RCA grayplates that I already own on the recommendation from my tube guy ...and I am now in agreement :)

Again, thanks for the words, gents! ...just thought I'd share is all. All in the name of Tone, eh? :D

Edward
 
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