Les Paul '57 VOS and tone

[Mariocò]

Hi guys, just want to ask you some questions.
I've got a MKV and a 2x12 with V30s and my main guitar is a Gibson Les Paul '57 Historic VOS.
I play everything 1 and half down ( C# ) and use to play mostly rock and metal ( more metal ) and it just seems that the Burstbuckers are not capable of giving me that typical squeal and that high output, it sounds in almost every way more rock than metal.
I'm not sure of this, but maybe I should try to EQ in a different way and modes...however I was just thinking to change the bridge pickup.
What would you think would be better ?
I want a reaaaally full rich sound, just like Deftones, maybe.

Thank you so much guys and sorry for my english ( I'm italian )



bye !

 

[lesterpaul]

and it just seems that the Burstbuckers are not capable of giving me that typical squeal and that high output, it sounds in almost every way more rock than metal.

bye !

the bbuckers are more "rock" than metal...there are boutique pickups a-plenty to pick from-asking on a message board will get one hundred different suggestions...
-you will want to look into more high output pickups,possibly ceramic magnet pickups....there are pickups made especially for low tuners like you(the "Aftermath" from Bare Knuckles comes to mind...ooops..there I go, giving a suggestion...!)

 

[Mariocò]

and it just seems that the Burstbuckers are not capable of giving me that typical squeal and that high output, it sounds in almost every way more rock than metal.

bye !

the bbuckers are more "rock" than metal...there are boutique pickups a-plenty to pick from-asking on a message board will get one hundred different suggestions...
-you will want to look into more high output pickups,possibly ceramic magnet pickups....there are pickups made especially for low tuners like you(the "Aftermath" from Bare Knuckles comes to mind...ooops..there I go, giving a suggestion...!)

sorry for that but thank you so much for your suggestion...others would be gladly accepted

 

[Khorah.pds]

You could try a Gibson Dirty Finger... That might give you what you want!

I prefer a slightly hot PAF style in my lp when matched with my mark v.

 

[screamingdaisy]

I've got a MKV and a 2x12 with V30s and my main guitar is a Gibson Les Paul '57 Historic VOS.
I play everything 1 and half down ( C# ) and use to play mostly rock and metal ( more metal ) and it just seems that the Burstbuckers are not capable of giving me that typical squeal and that high output, it sounds in almost every way more rock than metal.
I'm not sure of this, but maybe I should try to EQ in a different way and modes...however I was just thinking to change the bridge pickup.
What would you think would be better ?

I have a Les Paul Historic w/ Burstbuckers (1 and 2). I agree they're more vintage sounding and produce their own compression. I use them for metal, but I do it on purpose since I wanted a more old school vibe.

In the past I've gotten really good results using ceramic pickups, my favourite being EMGs. I have an Explorer that I've left loaded with an EMG 81 (bridge) and 60 (neck) for those times that I need something a little more cutting than my Les Paul.

 

[Mariocò]

mmm, does exists a passive EMG ? I don't want to make holes in the LP's body and I prefer not to use batteries...

 

[screamingdaisy]

The passive EMGs don't sound or perform like the actives. If you want passives, I'd stick with companies that specialize in passive pickups... both Seymour Duncan and DiMarzio are a good place to start. Lots of people like the Duncan JB... both in rock and in metal.

Stephen Carpenter uses an EMG 707, which is similar to the EMG 85.

 

[LesPaul70]

Yeah, forget the passive EMGs. They're basically budget-price ripoffs for entry-level priced guitars, riding on the fame of the EMG brand. They sound nothing like their big brothers, just like screamingdaisy said.

Lots of people like the Duncan JB... both in rock and in metal.

JB is a cool pickup. It produces an awesome, complex, 3-dimensional harmonic structure. Simply beautiful for lead playing.
However...it's a far cry from the EMG sound.

For a passive pickup that resembled the typical EMG active sound and (to a degree) output, I would suggest you try one of the following Bare Knuckle Pickups offerings. The first two were specifically inspired by EMG pickups (reputedly, Miracle Man by EMG-81 and Warpig by EMG-85). They aren't the cheapest pickups on the market...but you get what you pay for. I've got BKPs in two of my guitars, and I honestly think they're the best pickups I have in any of my guitars. (Before you ask: I have a Crawler set in a Les Paul, and a Warpig in the bridge position in an SG while the neck pickup is a Gibson Tony Iommi signature - in an SG, that's a pickup combination made in heaven&hell! :wink: )


1: Bare Knuckle Pickups Miracle Man:
https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/main/pickups.php?cat=humbuckers&sub=contemporary&pickup=miracle_man
This pickup is said to have been inspired by EMG-81. It is ceramic and markedly more scooped than the other two, so it's perhaps better suited to rhythm playing than lead playing. Combining it with a scooped amp sound might be too much of a scoop, leading to a bizarre "hollow" sound that doesn't cut through in the band mix.

2: Bare Knuckle Pickups Warpig:
https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/main/pickups.php?cat=humbuckers&sub=contemporary&pickup=warpig
Despite the name, reputedly inspired by EMG-85. My favorite pickup of these three BKP pickups. You can choose either the Alnico V version for a looser and more organic sound, or a ceramic version for tigher sound and even more gain. Both versions produce impressive amounts of bass (without sounding muddy - BKP don't do mud! All BKPs I have owned have consistently been the clearest sounding pickups I have heard, much clearer than Gibson or Seymour Duncan pickups, for comparison.). You may need to adjust your amp settings accordingly.
I have the Alnico version.

3: Bare Knuckle Pickups Aftermath:
https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/main/pickups.php?cat=humbuckers&sub=contemporary&pickup=aftermath
The newest, brightest and tightest of the bunch. This could be your choice if you want tight sound and surgically precise attack.

Listen to the sound samples on the site, they will give you some idea how the pickups compare to each other.

 

[Mariocò]

Yeah, forget the passive EMGs. They're basically budget-price ripoffs for entry-level priced guitars, riding on the fame of the EMG brand. They sound nothing like their big brothers, just like screamingdaisy said.

Lots of people like the Duncan JB... both in rock and in metal.

JB is a cool pickup. It produces an awesome, complex, 3-dimensional harmonic structure. Simply beautiful for lead playing.
However...it's a far cry from the EMG sound.

For a passive pickup that resembled the typical EMG active sound and (to a degree) output, I would suggest you try one of the following Bare Knuckle Pickups offerings. The first two were specifically inspired by EMG pickups (reputedly, Miracle Man by EMG-81 and Warpig by EMG-85). They aren't the cheapest pickups on the market...but you get what you pay for. I've got BKPs in two of my guitars, and I honestly think they're the best pickups I have in any of my guitars. (Before you ask: I have a Crawler set in a Les Paul, and a Warpig in the bridge position in an SG while the neck pickup is a Gibson Tony Iommi signature - in an SG, that's a pickup combination made in heaven&hell! :wink: )


1: Bare Knuckle Pickups Miracle Man:
https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/main/pickups.php?cat=humbuckers&sub=contemporary&pickup=miracle_man
This pickup is said to have been inspired by EMG-81. It is ceramic and markedly more scooped than the other two, so it's perhaps better suited to rhythm playing than lead playing. Combining it with a scooped amp sound might be too much of a scoop, leading to a bizarre "hollow" sound that doesn't cut through in the band mix.

2: Bare Knuckle Pickups Warpig:
https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/main/pickups.php?cat=humbuckers&sub=contemporary&pickup=warpig
Despite the name, reputedly inspired by EMG-85. My favorite pickup of these three BKP pickups. You can choose either the Alnico V version for a looser and more organic sound, or a ceramic version for tigher sound and even more gain. Both versions produce impressive amounts of bass (without sounding muddy - BKP don't do mud! All BKPs I have owned have consistently been the clearest sounding pickups I have heard, much clearer than Gibson or Seymour Duncan pickups, for comparison.). You may need to adjust your amp settings accordingly.
I have the Alnico version.

3: Bare Knuckle Pickups Aftermath:
https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/main/pickups.php?cat=humbuckers&sub=contemporary&pickup=aftermath
The newest, brightest and tightest of the bunch. This could be your choice if you want tight sound and surgically precise attack.

Listen to the sound samples on the site, they will give you some idea how the pickups compare to each other.

oh my...you're my new god

I love the Aftermath and I like a lot the Warpig too...but I'm not sure which one will cut the mix mostly...fact is that the squeal of the Aftermath is unbelievable, Warpig doesn't have it ( correct me if I'm wrong )

any tips ?

or better...any sample with a MKV ?

 

[screamingdaisy]

1: Bare Knuckle Pickups Miracle Man:
https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/main/pickups.php?cat=humbuckers&sub=contemporary&pickup=miracle_man
This pickup is said to have been inspired by EMG-81. It is ceramic and markedly more scooped than the other two, so it's perhaps better suited to rhythm playing than lead playing. Combining it with a scooped amp sound might be too much of a scoop, leading to a bizarre "hollow" sound that doesn't cut through in the band mix.

I don't get how a pickup can be 81 inspired yet also scooped. The 81 a bright pickup that's nearly all mids without a lot of bottom end.

 

[lesterpaul]

1: Bare Knuckle Pickups Miracle Man:
https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/main/pickups.php?cat=humbuckers&sub=contemporary&pickup=miracle_man
This pickup is said to have been inspired by EMG-81. It is ceramic and markedly more scooped than the other two, so it's perhaps better suited to rhythm playing than lead playing. Combining it with a scooped amp sound might be too much of a scoop, leading to a bizarre "hollow" sound that doesn't cut through in the band mix.

I don't get how a pickup can be 81 inspired yet also scooped. The 81 a bright pickup that's nearly all mids without a lot of bottom end.

I had one-its a ceramic bridge
/high output-I liked it for a ceramic, but it helped me remember why i am not a big fan of ceramics-it would have no problem cutting through -definitely not hollow sounding unless you dial it up that way...Tim Mills names these so the buyer gets a ballpark idea of what music the pup is best suited for...hence the Zakk Wylde connection
I have a few B Knucks, and I prefer the vintage builds, but I am a vintage dude...!

 

[Mariocò]

guys, what about a Seymour Duncan 6H6B ?

About the BK, the fight is between Warpigs and Aftermath...love the gnarly sound of the Aftermath, but I've got the feeling of this pickup losing some frequencies, not being as full as the warpig sounds...or it's just me ?

 

[LesPaul70]

I don't get how a pickup can be 81 inspired yet also scooped. The 81 a bright pickup that's nearly all mids without a lot of bottom end.

I had one-its a ceramic bridge
/high output-I liked it for a ceramic, but it helped me remember why i am not a big fan of ceramics-it would have no problem cutting through -definitely not hollow sounding unless you dial it up that way...

That's (sort of) the point I was trying to make. Miracle Man isn't that scooped per se, it's just noticeably scooped when compared to the other two I listed. But if you are aggresively scooping out your middles already, this might make a bad combination...at least some players have experienced that.

About the BK, the fight is between Warpigs and Aftermath...love the gnarly sound of the Aftermath, but I've got the feeling of this pickup losing some frequencies, not being as full as the warpig sounds...or it's just me ?

I think the best BKP pickup for you could be a ceramic Warpig, it sort of combines the best of two worlds for you. It has the modern, tight ceramic sound that Aftermath also has but it emphasizes the low frequencies while Aftermath emphasizes high frequencies.
But if you are seriously considering Bare Knuckles, by far the best option is to contact them directly ( https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/ccs/open.php ), describe your gear and tell what kind of sound you are after, and you should receive a personal reply and recommendation, probably from Tim Mills himself. He's an immensely experienced and knowledgeable guy and you really can't go wrong if you follow his recommendation. I asked for one and ended up buying a set of Crawlers for my Les Paul (as per his recommendation) - and couldn't be happier!

 

[K-Roll]

I'll tell you about my pickup quest and how it turned out.. so, i;ve always thought that the best way is to have a good high output pickup and, in some cases it works great. There's a ton of amps that won't let the guitar impact the tone too much..hmm just like my good old 5150, it sounded great with pretty much any guitar I would use.. Now the MK5 was a different story. My guitar is a 7string and what I always fought with was -too much trebles/piercing presence and these things.. I always wanted a full nice lush tone.. (guitar is different than yours though..mahogany body, wenge top, maple neck+I rosewood)

The first pickup I had in my gutiar was a BKP painkiller, it used to sound superb with a recto or 5150, it sounded like **** with the mk5. The clean tone was breaking up, it was glassy, ch3(mk4) and crunch) were full of these uppermids/piercing trebles. the signal was very very strong and it was pushing the amp too much. the ceramic character did not bond well with the upper mid character of the mk5 and with single note runs it sounded shrill and thin.

The second was a Nailbomb Alnico 5 - suddenly it sounded too bassy and without cut no matter how i set it. It just did not work with that specific guitar and was still too strong.. but somehow the tracking of the pickup was better due to the A5 magnet, it did not tear my ears every time i hit the strings

The third was a Holy diver Alnico 5 - almost there.. but still quite too strong..

So for the 4th try I went with the medium/high output line of BKP choosing emerald, it was one of the best pickups I've had in that axe, A5 magnet, medium output, it just did not push the amp too much and still retained clarity. I somehow realized that in order to keep the Mk5 versatile on all 3 channels, you should not use all out power pickups (allthough some may find their tone with actives or strong pups great, it's just my case you know). The only thing that was bothering me was it's crunchy character, don't take me wrong I like a nice crunchy tone, but this was a little too much causing single notes in higher position still quite thin

So for the 5th and i think last time I went with a BKP black dog 7. Alnico 5 bridge pickup with like 9,5kOhm. And that was it! That PAF on steroids kind of tone reaaaaally helped me get a good, full sound without any harshness, still retaining clarity and keeping all 3 channels usable to 100%. And i have to admit that all of the pickups I used and tried made a huge huge change in the sound everytime I tried a new one.

 

[Mariocò]

thank you to everyone of you, everytime so kind...

k-Roll...what's your style of playing ? What kind of music, sound ?

Great review, btw...! thank you too

 

[lesterpaul]

+1 on emailing T Mills...and tell him everything-your guitar,pots,amp,speakers,TUNING, and specific tone you are hunting
the fact that you always tune low will, of course, play a big role

 

[K-Roll]

thank you to everyone of you, everytime so kind...

k-Roll...what's your style of playing ? What kind of music, sound ?

Great review, btw...! thank you too

hmm it's always hard for me to identify. I'd say a modern rock/metal/crossover of some sort influenced by various music genres.. I use all 3 channels, for some songs I lean towards channel 2 crunch for some I need the fast response of channel 3

 

[Mariocò]

Guys, been searching around for pickups...before spending lots of money for a Bare Knuckle, I want to try a SD...what would you suggest ? sh-5 or sh-6 ?

 

[Mariocò]

Someone out there ?

 

[Heritage Softail]

An idea for you.

Don't screw up the sweet LP by trying to make it chug like a club dragging beast.

Get a decent used 7 banger. It will come with the right pups, have a lower range, and be set up for heavy gauge strings.

You will have to massacre a good guitar to get it to never be quite as good for the stated purpose of low turnings and chugging low.

Get the right used guitar and rock on