Learn Me Sumpin About Pickups, Please!

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soundchaser59

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I have played electric guitar for 35 years, but to this day I know next to nothing about pickups. Oh, I understand the basic electronic principle behind coils and magnetism and how they work. But I know nothing about which pickups to use for what kind of tone.

For years I played stock, off the wall guitars thru so-so solid state amps and never gave it a second thought. But a couple three years ago I finally reverted back to the All-Tube side of The Force. One night while playing my beautifully setup MIA Strat standing in front of the TV, I realized how tired I was of having to tolerate that loud and annoying 60hz hum/buzz in my guitar when I switch to certain positions on 5-position selector switch.

So I was thrilled a week later when I got my guitar back from the local retailer with Fender Hot Noiseless Pickups on it. No more hum. That was about a year ago.

Now I have been trying to "find my tone" and I realize that the one ingredient I have not messed with in the whole recipe is the pickups. I have been thru a couple dozen amps, a few dozen speakers, and a basket full of pedals, with some success. I am closer than ever now with the gear I have to getting the tone I want, but there is still something in the sound I dont really care for. And I am finally wondering if that last "make a difference" ingredient might be those Hot pickups.

I constantly have my tone knobs turned down to 2 on both the guitar and the amp just to tame the highs and to stop that eardrum piercing sizzle. I frequently have a high freq response in my tone that I would describe as simply too much, too hot, too bright, too brash, too edgy, tooooo darn HOT. I have lowered the pickups quite a bit with only small improvements in this biting response. I'm tired of not being able to have a full range of movement on my tone controls for fear of getting ice picks in my ears!

The tone I'm after I would describe as Lee Ritenour meets Jeff Beck. Or put a different way, take Stevie Ray Vaughns licks but play them on Lee Ritenours rig. Not a perfect analogy, but you get the idea. Some of the smoother Steely Dan solos come to mind, on their later albums, like the solo in FM. I'm after smoother, phatter, warmer, darker sound that can still punch and rock and grind but without that old fashioned single coil scream and piercing high sizzle.

So the questions become these: Will different pickups make that much difference? Am I correct in thinking that it's the "Hot" in these pickups that is causing the too bright too edgy tone I get when I crank my tone knobs up? How can I get the smoother phatter warmer darker tone and still be "noiseless"?? Since I cant very well run "a few dozen" pickups thru my ringer, I need to narrow down the options before I buy. So which ones are going to get me closest to the sound I describe? Can I get there or really close to there without breaking the bank on a bunch of custom forged hand wound Dilithium Crystal pickups from the planet Romulus?? And can I do it with the Strat I already have?

I know my amp and my frets, but I know next to nothing about pickups. Any tips/links/recommends?

Thanks in advance!
 
a lot of variables , tone chaser-magnet types,dc resistance,etc...
seems like you can find some "vintage" noiseless style pups..
I really like alnico V single coils in the 6-7 dc resistance range-if you can find a middle pup that is reverse wound/reverse polarity,it will be hum cancelling in positions 2 and 4 of a 5 way switch
I struggled finding THE strat pups I was looking for-hung out with some Kinmans for a while,but they were too hot-I want my strat to sound like a strat...a vintage 60's strat_ i don't want to try to mimic a Paul(thats why I have a Paul...)
I am totally in love with the hand wound BAre Knuckle "Mother's Milk"-warm,full...not ice picky..but big....however...it is a custom pup from across the pond(seeing the value of the USD over there, the pups are pricey)
anyway, they are not "hum cancelling"...and I do not have 60 cyle hum probs with them-they are traditional pups with alnicoV and they deliver
-many people comment that the "hum cancelling",or "noiseless" pups lack something...having not played, I cannot comment..but you are correct..I believe after researching pups, you will be on the right track to finding your "grail"..another link in the chain!
 
i've always believed that hum cancelling pickups only add something.

definitely something i want.

-cannot tolerate hum, or buzz.
 
Great info from Bill Lawrence, and awesome clip on the u. I'm very interested in finding outmore about that stuff. Hard to beat a product that comes from the guy who practically invented the darn thing.

Appreciate that one big time!
 
This is awesome. I called the Bill Lawrence number and the man himself actually answered the phone. He talked with me for 20-30 minutes about pickups and tone. He knew EXACTLY what I was liking and not liking.

I cannot resist at this point, the guy is too cool to walk away from . I sent him an email asking for recommends. His purchase page is not finished yet, but he will definitely tell me his best guess about where I shoudl start. This "hot noiseless" bridge pickup has got to be the first to go!

Sweeeeet! Thanks for the tip!
 
FWIW-
i've done business with bill 3 times now.

never a hitch.

they are a small shop, and do most of their stuff by hand, so sometimes the wait times can get long, if they're doing a batch of a particular model....

but for the price per pound, it's an excellent product.
 
gonzo said:
FWIW-
i've done business with bill 3 times now.

never a hitch.

they are a small shop, and do most of their stuff by hand, so sometimes the wait times can get long, if they're doing a batch of a particular model....

but for the price per pound, it's an excellent product.

Ya know, the more I work with this rig, the more I realize the bridge pickup is the one I most dislike. Do you think I should just start by replacing that one pickup? AND experiment with different cap values? Does each tone pot have its own capacitor?

I really like the sound I get with the neck pickup. The middle switch position I assume is the middle pickup, and it is ok, useable for rhythms, but I find myself always switching back tot he neck pickup for leads. It's almost as if I wish the bridge pickup would give me the sound that I get from the middle pickup.

If I go from a .022 cap to a .047 cap, does that give me brighter sound, or not so bright?
 
http://www.soundchasermusic.net/demos/pickups_test.mp3

Here is a little clip to show the difference in the pickups. Nothing dazzling, just basic tone and sloppy licks. The volume knob is full, but the tone knobs are on 2-3 here. Amp knobs are up about 35% on the high, 50% on the mid, 35% on the low, contour about 50%. I only use the neck, middle, and bridge positions on the switch here, no 2nd or 4th position in this clip. Also a bit of compressor and some clean boost, into the "Burn" channel on the Mesa 5.25 Express.

0 - 0:33 basic sound, this is the pickup I like, the neck pickup.
at 0:33 switch to the middle pickup, works ok for rhythm but seems a bit less body for leads.
at 0:44 switch to the bridge pickup, this is the one I think is too thin and bright.
at 0:57 switch back to the neck pickup.


What would you do if you were unhappy with the sound of the bridge pickup here? If I turn the tone knob up more than 2-3 then the bridge pickup becomes really harsh and too edgy for my taste, and it is so thin sounding that it is virtually useless to me in a band setting.
 
Still waiting for a email from Bill Lawrence re: recommending a replacement Wilde pickup to replace my bridge Hot Noiseless pickup.

I think I can get a lot of mileage from just that simple act, but I'm willing to experiment with caps and pots too. Are 22's and 47's the only viable choices for caps?
 
Upon reading this thread I went and did a little investigating.

One of the things I discovered was I did not want a reverse wound hum canceling middle pickup for a strat.

Wound up getting a set of Manlius hand wound vintage 54's
They are incredible.
Finally have that true Strat Quack in position 4

Whether or not the hand wound is it or that the specs are 54 make no difference to me. All I know is this is the greatest set of Pickups I have ever used.

I've had strats with EC lace sensors..SRV Texas Specials...vintage Ibanez artist...G&L F-100 and countless others.

for pure "old" style strat sound these pickups are awesome.

I might mention pre these pickups...like Bill Lawrence I never used anything but the neck position and changed tones with hand placement.

These pickups have changed my feeling about that.

for the record I'm 50 and 38 years of playing.
 
Do Not Be Duped.

The bill Lawrence pickups that are being advertised at musician's friend, are not the real thing.

They are not real, and Bill and Becky are aware of it. The branding and the language are unfortunately confusing, which is probably the aim.

you can wiki it if you're interested in the back story.....


the legal settlement granted Wacjman the trade mark and Bill the service mark.



The real pickups are now branded as Wilde USA and Keystone.

to get the real thing, go here:

http://www.billlawrence.com/
http://www.wildepickups.com/
 
http://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/v?eno=62&pno=92043516&pty=CAN&mode=frame
 
Those are the two web sites I have been dealing with. I'm pretty sure I spoke with the real Bill Lawrence on the phone. And I dont buy anything from MF unless they are the only ones on earth who have what I need.

Thanks for the caveat!
 
I got a Seymour Duncan Cool Rail bridge pickup and had the luthier (the old one, the family owned shop) install it for me (not the death metal guy at the local profiteering music store who put the Hot Noiseless in my Strat).

When I got it back they told me that metal guy had put 1 meg ohm pots in it, all with .022 caps. If I understand the theory correctly, this would explain a lot of why my Strat was too hot and too edgy and too bright for my taste.

The luthier put the Cool Rail in, put 250k ohm pots back in, and larger caps I believe. They were definitely a bit miffed at what the metal guy had done to my Strat. They are very traditional minded folks when it comes to guitar setups!

Now it sounds more like what I remember from when I first bought it, in the days before the Hot Noiseless pickups. They said the Cool Rail is a humbucker, and it seems to sound a bit louder and a bit phatter some how. If I tweak my compressor and my tone knobs a certain way it really gives me a nice sound. And I still have my beloved neck pickup. Now I can turn the amp up a bit louder and get richer sounds from this guitar. This is definitely a nice improvement!!
 
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