Just traded my Subway Rocket for an F 30, but struggling with the Crunch channel

[RCR]

Had an F 30 Short head for a while and loved the cleans. Got a chance to trade my trusty Subway Rocket for an equally nice F 30 combo last week even. I'm really struggling now with the crunch side of the F 30 but love the cleans. Wonder if some of it is the stock Vin 30 in the F 30. I ran a pair of Tungsol 12AX 7's in V1 and 2 of my Short head, and it helped get it close to where I wanted it. Something in the mids I just can't seem to dial out on the crunch side on the F 30 combo. Thinking a speaker swap and tubes would help.
Had a WGS ET 10 in the Subway, and it killed so, thinking hard about a WGS ST 65 in the F 30. Have a Mesa 1/12 wide body and the F 30 sounds better with the cab and the Black Shadow 90, but is still not quite where I want to go. The Vin 30 just doesn't seem to be a good tonal match for this amp with that mid-spike.
The amp had a full set of JJ tubes when I got it and now has a fresh set of Mesa EL 84's in the power side and so far a set of Shunghang 12AX7s seem to sound the best in the pre of what I have on hand. It's much better now, but just can't get the mud and boxieness out of the crunch side
Any insight on this guys?

 

[JustPassingThrough]

Mud is generally too much bass, and a boxy sound is generally too much mids. Small combo cabinets generally suffer from the latter and not commonly the former.

So... An eq pedal night fix that right away, and a lot cheaper than anything else.

 

[RCR]

Mud is generally too much bass, and a boxy sound is generally too much mids. Small combo cabinets generally suffer from the latter and not commonly the former.

So... An eq F 30 1/12 combo rememeber. pedal night fix that right away, and a lot cheaper than anything else.

I traded a smaller 1/10 combo in the Subway Rocket for the F 30 1/12 combo remember. The F 30 gives me much better cleans, plus a completely separate eq for both channels. However, the crunch has a lot more mud and a raspy mid character that the Subway didn't have on the crunch side. I got a much closer tones out of the F 30 head I had to the Subway than the combo. I have ordered a pair of the Tungsol 12 AX7's I had in V 1 and 2 of the F 30 head when I sold it so that may help some. I'm trying to get the crunch side a little closer to the Subway in tone.
The Subway has been my grab and so small gig amp for years, but the cleans were lacking and at times I need a little more punch when I am running unmiced than the 1/12 is why I did the trade.
Here is a clip with the Subway there is no PA at all here I'm running nothing but a little Verb and Delay in the loop of the Subway as it was an early one without reverb. I have several larger amps and cabs for bigger gigs but want to at least get close to this tone with the F 30. I could with the head, but so far am not there with this combo. I'm wondering if a lot of it is not the factory Vin 30 in the F 30. The Subway was running a WGS ET 10 here.

 

[JustPassingThrough]

Bigger speaker = more bass = more 'mud'.

Different speaker in a different enclosure = different mids.

Tubes won't change the speaker or the enclosure, they'll just eliminate them as the issue. V30s have an upper mid thing I don't like to hear, maybe you're the same.

An EQ pedal could fix the mud and take out the boxiness, but if you want to spend money on other stuff that's cool too.

 

[RCR]

I have another 25 watt EL 84 powered 1/12 combo that doesn't have the issue with the boxie tone and lack of clarity on the gain side. It also has more gain than the F 30 and just a single tone control. That is my Zinky Blue Velvet. It's something in the mids on the F 30 I'm fighting here. Had some of the same issue with the F 30 short head I had at first, so going to exactly the same tube combo in this combo as I had in the Head. I hated the JJs that came in the combo so had to retube it anyway. I suspect some of this is the upper mid-spike of the Vin 30 and is made worse in that small 1/12 cab. I really like Vin 30s in the right, larger closed back cab, love the set in my PRS Deep 2/12 cab under my first get Archon head, However, a Vin 30 seems an odd choice for the F 30 by Mesa as it just doesn't seem to match the voicing of this amp. The F 50 got the Black Shadow 90 so?? The tubes will be here by the weekend, so will start there and work out.

 

[Eevil]

I have another 25 watt EL 84 powered 1/12 combo that doesn't have the issue with the boxie tone and lack of clarity on the gain side. It also has more gain than the F 30 and just a single tone control. That is my Zinky Blue Velvet. It's something in the mids on the F 30 I'm fighting here. Had some of the same issue with the F 30 short head I had at first, so going to exactly the same tube combo in this combo as I had in the Head. I hated the JJs that came in the combo so had to retube it anyway. I suspect some of this is the upper mid-spike of the Vin 30 and is made worse in that small 1/12 cab. I really like Vin 30s in the right, larger closed back cab, love the set in my PRS Deep 2/12 cab under my first get Archon head, However, a Vin 30 seems an odd choice for the F 30 by Mesa as it just doesn't seem to match the voicing of this amp. The F 50 got the Black Shadow 90 so?? The tubes will be here by the weekend, so will start there and work out.

Have you tested how the boogie works with Zinkys cab?

 

[spawnofthesith2]

Is your widebody closed or open back?

 

[RCR]

The Widebody is an open back with a Black Shadow 90. On the Zinky cab it has a 16 OHM WGS Retro 30, but I don't have a double female 1/4 to 1/4 coupler to hook it up on hand unfortunately.
I will have a pair of the Tungsol 12 AX7s to drop in V 1 and 2 of the combo over the weekend and that helped tame the mid-spike on the crunch side these amps have in my F 30 Short head. Dumping the JJ set the former owner had in this amp was like taking a blanket off the amp but didn't quite get me where I want to be. I had put the same tube set in the short head so let's see where it gets me. I had the Short head where i wanted it tone with my cabs so lets try that first and see how far it gets me, then look at speakers if I need to. I have an old 90s GT 75 in a Blackstar 1/12 cab at my Church and may try swapping the speakers in the cab and the combo before I look at buying a speaker. I'm running a PRS Custom 50 with that cab and like the PRS with a Vin 30 2/12 PRS cab that I run under my first gen Archon cab a lot.

 

[dtrax]

Re: muddiness on the overdrive channel. Turn down the Bass knob and/or turn up the Treble knob. The tone stack on F-series amps is between stages 2 and 3, so it has more effect of the texture of the overdrive rather than overall tone shaping (e.g., Marshall, et al) where the TS is post preamp.

Engaging the Contour mode will scoop out the mids a fair amount (combating the "boxiness"). Contour (aside from kicking up the overdrive a bit) engages a fixed "V" EQ curve. A cool idea, but a bit too limiting IMO. I guess concessions had to be made since it was a budget amp.

It's been years since I sold my F-30. I miss that little amp.