Just a few general comments or opinion of the Badlander 100W

[bandit2013]

I have many Mesa amps in my collection and have always felt the best for dynamics and gain structure was with the Royal Atlantic. I actually have two of these but one is a combo. I have been running them in stereo and that was always my fixation or go-to rig setup. What I have thus far but may be thinning it out sometime down the road:
Roadster, MWDR, JP-2C, Mark V90, TC-100, TC-50, RA-100 head, RA-100 combo, California Tweed combo, and finally two Badlander 100W heads.

As a single amp situation, the Badlander seems to be the go-to amp with its intended complement of tubes. Sure, I tried with the STR440 6L6 tubes. The BL actually sounds much better with the EL34 tubes. I still have some attachment with the other amps to some extent. Even though the feature set may appear limited at first glance with the BL (only two channels) it makes up for it in quality of sound. Dynamic response is as close as it gets to the Royal Atlantic. I did not say Triple Crown. The TC is a fun amp in all respects, but it seems to have a pre-defined tone to it. More upper midrange that sounds great but tends to limit its use for a wider range of music that falls outside of the Marshall spectrum. Sure, the argument may be the Royal Atlantic is much the same but it can be tuned with change in preamp tubes for the hi/lo gain channel.

More to the point. The Bad-100, BL-100 or whatever you call it, just has the full spectrum of use without the limiting tone characteristics of the MWDR, Roadster, or Triple Crown. I have compared it to the JP-2C and it is similar just as much as it is similar to the Royal Atlantic with a change on the gain knob. There is plenty of Dual Rectifier DNA but it lacks the drone you would get from the DR platforms. Excellent amp for extended range instruments (I only have two 7-string guitars). Just about every amp I have sounds great with dropped tuning.

The BAD clean channel really sounds great when dialed for a clean sound (lower gain setting). I think it outshines the others but have not tried the Mark VII. It gets better with the gain pushed up for that early Marshall sound that I thought was only present with the Triple Crown clean set with drive enabled. Push the gain even further and it rips really well. Crunch on the other hand is almost in the DR arena, probably closer to the modern tone than raw or vintage. Then there is the crush, now that is epic in its own way. Has that Mark like compression similar to the JP-2C but with more range of gain control. You can get more aggressive with the Badlander than the JP-2C or Mark V90. I would say it is also on par with the MWDR but does not drown with the subharmonics (more of an issue with the Roadster).

Crush can be compressed even further with the use of a grid slammer. If you want more versatility, use the clean voice with the Flux Drive.

This is one amp I do not feel the need for any GEQ in the FX loop. The three parametric tone controls along with the presence is all you really need.

It only gets better when you pair up a Bad-100 with another Bad-100 and some stereo effects in the FX loop of each amp. It is not necessary to run two amps but that is my preference. At the moment I still have the Royal Atlantic in the rig setup. Thinking of putting it into storage for a while. May bring out the other 412 cab, if there is room, keep the vertical 212 cabs out and run two cabs per amp.

The Bad would have been ideal if there was a midi control unit that could select channel voices and channels, turn on and off the FX loop and such. No reverb, no problem. Most FX pedals do a better job with different variations of reverb than simple spring units.

Just for the curious: The V2 tube position is the tone stack driver. Typical Rectifier circuit with the moderate gain stage and dc coupled cathode follower circuit. V3 is where you would find the other circuit common with the Rectifier amps. V3 circuit does not appear to have the 39k cathode resistor. It looks like it may be a 15k value. I would assume that cold clipper circuit would be different as the BAD lacks the sub-harmonic drone you get with the other Rectifier amps and it sounds great with the 7-string guitar. I did not poke around much inside. Only to confirm if it had the cathode follower tone stack driver and where it was located. V4 is the other obvious cathode follower (FX send).

 

[rarebitusa]

Cool... I think that is really interesting WRT to the loop GEQ not being needed.

 

[sloanthebone]

I have many Mesa amps in my collection and have always felt the best for dynamics and gain structure was with the Royal Atlantic. I actually have two of these but one is a combo. I have been running them in stereo and that was always my fixation or go-to rig setup. What I have thus far but may be thinning it out sometime down the road:
Roadster, MWDR, JP-2C, Mark V90, TC-100, TC-50, RA-100 head, RA-100 combo, California Tweed combo, and finally two Badlander 100W heads.

As a single amp situation, the Badlander seems to be the go-to amp with its intended complement of tubes. Sure, I tried with the STR440 6L6 tubes. The BL actually sounds much better with the EL34 tubes. I still have some attachment with the other amps to some extent. Even though the feature set may appear limited at first glance with the BL (only two channels) it makes up for it in quality of sound. Dynamic response is as close as it gets to the Royal Atlantic. I did not say Triple Crown. The TC is a fun amp in all respects, but it seems to have a pre-defined tone to it. More upper midrange that sounds great but tends to limit its use for a wider range of music that falls outside of the Marshall spectrum. Sure, the argument may be the Royal Atlantic is much the same but it can be tuned with change in preamp tubes for the hi/lo gain channel.

More to the point. The Bad-100, BL-100 or whatever you call it, just has the full spectrum of use without the limiting tone characteristics of the MWDR, Roadster, or Triple Crown. I have compared it to the JP-2C and it is similar just as much as it is similar to the Royal Atlantic with a change on the gain knob. There is plenty of Dual Rectifier DNA but it lacks the drone you would get from the DR platforms. Excellent amp for extended range instruments (I only have two 7-string guitars). Just about every amp I have sounds great with dropped tuning.

The BAD clean channel really sounds great when dialed for a clean sound (lower gain setting). I think it outshines the others but have not tried the Mark VII. It gets better with the gain pushed up for that early Marshall sound that I thought was only present with the Triple Crown clean set with drive enabled. Push the gain even further and it rips really well. Crunch on the other hand is almost in the DR arena, probably closer to the modern tone than raw or vintage. Then there is the crush, now that is epic in its own way. Has that Mark like compression similar to the JP-2C but with more range of gain control. You can get more aggressive with the Badlander than the JP-2C or Mark V90. I would say it is also on par with the MWDR but does not drown with the subharmonics (more of an issue with the Roadster).

Crush can be compressed even further with the use of a grid slammer. If you want more versatility, use the clean voice with the Flux Drive.

This is one amp I do not feel the need for any GEQ in the FX loop. The three parametric tone controls along with the presence is all you really need.

It only gets better when you pair up a Bad-100 with another Bad-100 and some stereo effects in the FX loop of each amp. It is not necessary to run two amps but that is my preference. At the moment I still have the Royal Atlantic in the rig setup. Thinking of putting it into storage for a while. May bring out the other 412 cab, if there is room, keep the vertical 212 cabs out and run two cabs per amp.

The Bad would have been ideal if there was a midi control unit that could select channel voices and channels, turn on and off the FX loop and such. No reverb, no problem. Most FX pedals do a better job with different variations of reverb than simple spring units.

Just for the curious: The V2 tube position is the tone stack driver. Typical Rectifier circuit with the moderate gain stage and dc coupled cathode follower circuit. V3 is where you would find the other circuit common with the Rectifier amps. V3 circuit does not appear to have the 39k cathode resistor. It looks like it may be a 15k value. I would assume that cold clipper circuit would be different as the BAD lacks the sub-harmonic drone you get with the other Rectifier amps and it sounds great with the 7-string guitar. I did not poke around much inside. Only to confirm if it had the cathode follower tone stack driver and where it was located. V4 is the other obvious cathode follower (FX send).

I love my Badlander 50. I use the Flux drive to give it that extra boost and it’s been a great addition to the amp. I might need to pick up a Grid Slammer also per your recommendation.

I have never had a MWDR or any DR for that matter. Do you think it’s worth it to own one along side the Badlander? There is one for sale locally I have been eyeing up.


Unrelated, but it looks like you have a 2x12 vertical cab, 4x12 traditional cab and a 4x12 standard (OS) cab. Do you favor one over the rest? I have a 2x12 vertical and want a 4x12. Deciding between traditional and standard. Quite a few standards for sale locally but never see traditional. It seems people favor the traditional over the standard. Currenty have a JP-2C, TC50, Badlander 50 and Mark IIb.

 

[bandit2013]

I love my Badlander 50. I use the Flux drive to give it that extra boost and it’s the perfect addition to the amp. I might need to pick up a Grid Slammer also per your recommendation.

I have never had a MWDR or any DR for that matter. Do you think it’s worth it to own one along side the Badlander? There is one for sale locally I have been eyeing up.


Unrelated, but it looks like you have a 2x12 vertical cab, 4x12 traditional cab and a 4x12 standard (OS) cab. Do you favor one over the rest? I have a 2x12 vertical and want a 4x12. Deciding between traditional and standard. Quite a few standards for sale locally but never see traditional. It seems people favor the traditional over the standard. Currenty have a JP-2C, TC50, Badlander 50 and Mark IIb.

All of my Mesa 412 cabs are of the standard (oversized) slant front type.

I do have a traditional size 412 cab (Egnator), Barely ever use it. I ripped out the crappy 16 ohm speakers in favor of the 8ohm Celestion Cream G12H75. It is ok. Sounded best with the Mark V90. Did not like it with the other amps. From left to right: Mesa Standard Recto slant front 412 (2015), Mesa OS Recto Slant Front 412 (1999)-modified, Mesa Standard Recto Slant front 412 (2018), Egnator traditional sized 412 (2014)-modified. For me, the standard Recto 412 cab sounds the best with the RA, TC, Badlander, MWDR. Also sounds good with the JP2C. I have not pulled out the Egnator cab in years.

Depends on the year of the 412 cab was made. Easy way to tell if it may have the 70W V30 is that the side handles are not recessed into the side of the cabinet. Label on the back where the speaker cable plugs in will have 280W. Note that Mesa did not secure the speaker grill from the front as it is in the image. The 70W-V30 speakers are hard to tame. They flub out too easily. Not sure when Mesa started using the 60W-V30 as they sound much better. the label on the back will have 240W, the side handles will be recessed into the side panel. Other than that, they look identical. To be honest, the oversized 412 cab I bought in 1999 did not work out well with the Mark IVb, Mark III or Mark V90. It was due to the 70W V30 speaker. Reason I rebuilt it with EV speakers. However, the later models of the oversized cab now called the Standard sound epic with all the Mesa amps I have. It will be much louder than the Vertical 212 cab. Not as easy to move around either but awesome to have for the studio. Yeah, I have run some of the amps with the two standard 412 cabs, now that was something to write home about.

Note when I was in CA sometime in 2018 I made a pilgrimage trip to the Mesa Hollywood store. It was just after they released the 50th anniversary edition of the Rectifier. This was after I got the MWDR. I was considering the traditional sized 412 but had no reference how it sounded. I knew how the MWDR sounded with the Standard 412. Well sure enough they have both standard and traditional 412 cabs. I was able to compare the two side by side with the MWDR. The traditional 412 had too much midrange and it sounded fluby like the old OS Recto with the 70W-V30 speakers. The Standard 412 (current production OS cab) was just perfect. Has a slight scooped sound. Tight bass response and predictable treble. Not boomy at all. I am one who prefers to dial in more bass than most as I like to feel it as well as hear it. I would say it is very close to the Vertical 212 but not as bright. I also run 7 string guitars. Awesome with the TC, Badlander and Royal Atlantic, JP2C (sure why not list that one too). As for the MWDR, Roadster, not really compatible. Too much sub-harmonic content. It will work when you dial out all of the gain if using the modern voice. Some tend to run a boost of sorts. Traditional 6 string normal tuning as well as dropped tunings will be fine. the low B string on the 7 string guitar is the main issue with the Dual Rectifier or Triple Rectifier models. Not sure about the earlier versions.

The MWDR is a different beast than the Badlander. It has the sub-harmonic low frequency content that can get in the way of some playing styles. However, I feel it is three steps above the Roadster in terms of harmonics as it does not fight you for tap harmonics, and other tricks. Similar controllable feedback characteristic like the Badlander but not as compressed. Dynamics are similar to the BAD in some respects. Overall tone is more scooped than the BAD. Still a kick-a$$ amp to have. I have tried blending it with the Bad and it just works. Note that the crunch voice will be out of phase with any of the MWDR channels. Clean and crush will be in phase so if you plan on running the MWDR with the BAD keep that in mind.

Grid slammer on the Crush voice, Oooh, nice and gooey compression. It will also work great with the JP2C. The Bad has a nice compression with the crush as is for that liquid sound, it only gets better with the grid slammer. I normally do not run front end enhancers since I usually run a stereo rig with the Mesa Switch track. That is fully buffered and does not like the grid slammer in front of it. It will work after the switch track though. I just do not feel like having to run two of them.

 

[sloanthebone]

Sorry, thought I saw the traditional but I guess it was another 2x12. There is a 4x12 local that is 280 watts but has recessed handles in it, I assume this one you recommend to stay away from. It is this one: Mesa 4x12

Will have to think about the MWDR. Thanks for all the info.

 

[bandit2013]

The side handles are not recessed into the side panel. I can see the flat metal plate on the surface of the panel. How old is your Vertical 212 cab? If it is recent (past 10 years) then that would be more to current construction. By the images, the foam tape on the center post could be the older model. Mine was secured by sticky tape of sorts and was very difficult to remove the back cover. The side handles also were secured with some sort of double sticky tape.

I took a picture of the vertical 212 side handle, Standard 412 side handle and tried to get a picture of the old design but was under its cover.

Vertical 212 side handle, Sits in a pocket such that the surrounding flat part is not on the outside surface of the side panel.

Here is the side handle for the current design of the standard 412 cab. Same thing as it also is recessed into a pocket.

Not a good example but this is the older rectifier from 1999-2000 time period. Metal flat part of the side handle is not recessed into a pocket, it sits on top of the tolex covering. Don't worry about the silver screws, I had to use a larger screw as I had stripped out the hole with the stock screw. I did also fill the hole with some glue and wood strips. Since I rebuilt the cab a few times, I just simply replace the hardware.

If you are interested in the MWDR, it is best to try one out. Guitar Center is now selling Mesa products again so if they have one, try it. Not very hard to dial in. Set the gain to 2pm, to wake it up. I was just in a moment of bliss this evening running the two BADS on variac power running the crush voice, gain around 10am, and the MWDR in spongy mode, all channels on tube rectification. Modern voice on CH2 and CH3 set to 50W. WOW. I never really bothered with the spongy power mode or tube rectification that much. Now I have a favorite setting with all three amps. I did move the Roadster and its cab into storage this afternoon.

That is about as much as I am aware of that is different. As for the V30, 70W and the 60W look identical. I believe they have different part numbers on the labels on the side of the magnet. Not sure if the printing on the cone is different.

If you can try out the cabinet, and it sounds good to you then it will be fine.

 

[sloanthebone]

Ahhhhh now I get it about the handles. Thanks again! Also have a Grid Slammer on the way.

 

[bandit2013]

Here is a moment of bliss but will be an expensive experiment to get there. I bought the second Badlander on a whim that it would pan out when using it in stereo with the other one. Not only was that an experience it is now my go to rig. Sorry RA-100, you were on the top list but time to move over. Since I had the MWDR, why not run it as a center channel. It was a coin toss really. MWDR or Roadster. Figured I would just keep out the MWDR. Last night I tried something, ran both BAD100 at variac power, 100W, and using the crush voice. MWDR was set to spongy power and all tube rectifiers were used CH2 on modern voice. (CH2 and CH3 are clones so it did not matter if I ran CH3). Had the channels set to 50W. OMG was that incredible. I did not expect that to sound great but it did. Besides that, I did not like the bass cabs stacked in the tower.

 

[dlpasco]

This is really a great thread, Bandit. I'm assessing my own collection and am preparing to let some things go. Looking at my TC50 compared to my BL100 right now and your points are pretty compelling.

 

[bandit2013]

I finally got around to using the vacuum cleaner. The dog hair was getting out of hand. Now the pooch is going nuts ripping out his hair again.

I find the Badlander to be quite interesting in all its glory. I still have love for the other amps in my collection. If I had the room for it, the Royal Atlantic amps would still be out. I sort of fell into the EL34 abyss and it is hard to climb out of that. It was not an immediate change. It took some time to slip down that slope and move further away from the 6L6 based amps. I can blame it on the Royal Atlantic as that is a staple I cannot get away from. The BAD was just a push further down the abyss than I expected it to be.

I will try to refrain from saying one amp is better than the other. They are all great and serve a purpose. I may set up the Triple Crowns in the family room. Running them in stereo using a single midi cable to eliminate one footswitch works like a charm. They are fun amps in their own right.

One of these days, I have to get an Electra Dyne head. I recently came across the schematic while doing an extensive search for the Royal Atlantic schematic. After review of the ED schem, it was apparent that it is nothing like the RA or TC. It is more of a spin-off of the Stiletto and Rectifier amps but with a Simul-class power section. I had assumed it had the same preamp as the RA. Far from it. Actually it is more related to the BAD than the BAD is to the Triple Crown or Royal Atlantic. Sure, the cabinet is very much the same as the TC but what is stuffed inside is completely different.

Oh joy, I am beginning to sound like an SAT test. I think I have gone nuts.

 

[dlpasco]

I had an Electrodyne for about a year. The low gain sound was excellent. You could really push vintage high if you boosted it and basically dimed *everything*.

The volume taper was ridiculous, though. Painfully loud amplifiers. The attenuators for the RAs made all kinds of sense. I made this recording before I sold it. Holds up pretty okay. Nice cleans at 1:24 with a bit of lead playing after that.

 

[bandit2013]

That was with the ED? That sound amazing.

 

[bandit2013]

Odd thing, move my gear around, took out the MWDR and ran the two BADS with the two 412 cabs I have with V30. Apparently I was getting something completely different with the vertical 212 cabs. It may just be what I have in the signal chain. Looks like I will be going back to what I had set up previously. Even though I was not using the MWDR much as I can mute it, the tone was awesome. I sort of lost it when I changed to the two 412. Not sure if it was due to the void in between the two cabinets or was it the frequency response of the cabinets. For some reason it was more aggressive with the vertical 212s. Need to figure it out before mid week as the group is gathering for a jam session. None of the other members have been exposed to the dual BADS yet. Just the one. I had my Royal Atlantic RA-100s set up taking most of the wall space. The one BAD was on a vertical 212 cab but we ran it through the 412 under the RA that was furthest from the bass rig.

 

[dlpasco]

That was with the ED? That sound amazing.

(Yes, that was the Electra Dyne )

 

[Neptical]

Beautiful rigs you have there @bandit2013 .

How do you like those 2x12s?

I was thinking of getting two. One for my Single and one for my RoV heads.

I have both of them as well as a Rev. G running through a Soldano V30 412. Sounds just massive. That cab makes any amp of mine sound absolutely fantastic.

Would love to try out those 2x12s but still want that huge punch.

 

[bandit2013]

Beautiful rigs you have there @bandit2013 .

How do you like those 2x12s?

I was thinking of getting two. One for my Single and one for my RoV heads.

I have both of them as well as a Rev. G running through a Soldano V30 412. Sounds just massive. That cab makes any amp of mine sound absolutely fantastic.

Would love to try out those 2x12s but still want that huge punch.

It is hard to explain why I prefer the vert 212 cabs. Many complain they are too bright. This is true if you are eager to dial up the treble and presence. The sound is not that much different than the standard 412 cab (this can be subjective topic), just not as loud. The cabinet size is supposed to have a similar volume per speaker as the 412 or how ever Mesa worded it. The 412 sounds a bit more scooped than the Vert 212.

I can get more perceived volume from the 412 than the vert 212. However, with the rig it does not sound like the BADs are on 212 cabinets. I am getting that 412 sound probably because I am running two of them.

The benefit of the 212 in a small room, is that you can run the amps at a higher volume setting but will not get as loud as the 412. The MWDR head is wider than the vertical 212 cab by an inch or so. the feet will fit but just looks funny as there is a slight overhang of the head in relation to the width of the cabinet. Not sure on the Roadster, so depending on the depth and width of the amp head, it may or may not fit on the vertical 212. I know for a fact the Royal Atlantic RA-100 will not fit on a single vertical 212. Most people with the standard or long heads use the horizontal 212 cab. That cab has a darker tone than the 412. It just sits low but any head will fit on top of it, including the 412 cabinet.

Here is the horizontal 212 under the standard 412 cab. The other cab in the picture under the RA-100 combo is a standard 412 cab. I did not get much of a benefit having the horizontal 212 and standard 412 combined. I would rather run two 412 cabs as that was more pleasing. Who has room for that though?

 

[Neptical]

@bandit2013 Appreciate the response!

I'll be honest, I'm not a fan of those horizontal cabs so I'll definitely be sticking to the verts. I think I'll just look in to a single 2x12 vert for now to see how I like it for more sorta grab-n-go. I just wanted to know if a single 2x12 vert can get pretty pretty beefy sounding. I'm a low Presence, Zero Treble Recto guy ( using an SD-1 as boost). I really like the 50w Recs and may eventually look in to the Badlander for something different.

 

[bandit2013]

The 212 is not as full bodied as the 412. It does have some bottom end to it.
Perhaps it is something you can hear at local store (this now includes Guitar Center). Getting an idea how the cabinet will sound the way you dial in your amp would be best if you can experience it before buying it. I had no clue how the 212 would pan out. Started with one to use with the JP-2C head. Liked it. Got another when I bought the TC-50, and again with the TC-100. So now I have three of them. Actually the first 212 had black jute and the JP was stock as well. The second 212 I could get my hands on had the tan colored grill so I opted to have the face plate changed on the JP to match the grill. I am using the two black one's in my stereo rig. They sound great. Tight and punchy and not quite as scooped in tone compared to the 412 cab.

As for the Horizontal 212 cab, sound is too close to the floor. Not a bad cabinet for what it is. Makes for a good base for a heavy 212 combo amp. By itself with just the amp, not my favorite cab. However, with the Royal Atlantic, Roadster, it is a good fit if I want to shrink down to a 212 cabinet. Those two do not fit on top of the Vert 212 in any appealing fashion. Horizontal 212 is just bulky and awkward to move and carry. Would be better if there were side handles or at least two straps vs one. Vertical 212 is easy to carry and transport compared to a horizontal 212 or 412 cab. Also takes up less floor space as it is the same width as the widebody Mark V90. Basically, same size as the Badlander or triple crown heads. I have no regrets getting the vert 212 cabinets. Sure, the first one was the risk as there was no place to hear it first except in video demos of the JP-2C or Triple Crown.

 

[bandit2013]

When it comes to amps, 100W or 50W. Depends on the options.
I have not played through a Badlander 50W. Wonder how it compares to the 100W version.

The Triple Crown 100 vs 50, yeah, there is a difference in tone which is related to the magnetics used. The larger OT in the 100W does make a difference.

Makes me wonder how the older Recto 50W compare to the big brother 100W. If it has less low end influence like the TC50/TC100 relationship, I can see the desire for the 50W version of the Rectifier amp.

 

[Neptical]

@bandit2013 Thanks for your input! I think I may end up looking for a traditional Recto 412 to accompany my Soldano V30 412. I can't get past how great this cab sounds with all my Rectos ( Single, RoV &, Rev G ). I'm assuming it's going to be just as good if not better! IDK though - this Soldano V30 412 absolutely RIPS.

In regards to the Badlander 50 vs 100, I'm curious. However, really wish the 6L6 was there! I know that has deterred some folks.

Makes me wonder how the older Recto 50W compare to the big brother 100W. If it has less low end influence like the TC50/TC100 relationship, I can see the desire for the 50W version of the Rectifier amp.

I have Series 1 Singles and RoVs. They absolutely can hold their own against my Rev G. Get the right EQ/OD set-up with the right cab/speakers and that's all it takes ( a good player too of course!).