JJ Lonestar Special EL84s good

[timmerel]

I ordered a complete JJ retube (except the Rectifier) a while ago, and on first installation didn't like the sound compared to stock Mesa tubes. Before junking them, thought I'd try just switching the power amp tubes over today, and now understand what all the fuss is about. Overdrive smoother, mud gone, and to my surprise the clean channel breaks up later now - so I can turn the gain up higher to get a more detailed sound without it gritting up.

These amps require some patience - of which I don't have enough.

Any suggestions on preamp tubes? I'll fiddle with the JJ ECC83S's again, but they must have been the part of the retube that I didn't like as much.

 

[Platypus]

I like JJ power tubes a lot, but I tried their preamp tubes and they just aren't very good to my ears.

 

[timmerel]

Exactly - so do you use stock Mesa preamp tubes?

 

[Platypus]

Exactly - so do you use stock Mesa preamp tubes?

Right now yes, I want to try some GT12AX7M's but I need some $ first

I ran V1 with a JJ ECC83S for a while and it took some of the harshness out of my channel 3 on my DR so I appreciated that, but it made the tone really sterile on the clean channel.

Seems like the popular method for the preamp section is a really nice tube for V1 and V2, and 'utility' or non-tone based tubes for the rest, something like 9th gen chinese, tung sol, etc. This balances economics and tone.

My plan is to run GT12AX7M's in V1/V2 and 9th gen chinese tubes for everything else, when I have some spare GAS cash

 

[tiger roach]

Hmm, I just happen to have a quad of JJ's I was gonna put in my Special this weekend. 8)

Interesting comment about the preamp tubes. I hope this thread stays alive and someone will turn us on to some more good suggestions. Some flavor of NOS tubes perhaps?

 

[Platypus]

Hmm, I just happen to have a quad of JJ's I was gonna put in my Special this weekend. 8)

Interesting comment about the preamp tubes. I hope this thread stays alive and someone will turn us on to some more good suggestions. Some flavor of NOS tubes perhaps?

There are some great comments/discussions in the Tubes forum from people much more seasoned than I, check them out

 

[guitarvet]

Can you dumb this down for me a little? I recently re-tubed my LSS with JJ's and was basically underwhelmed. Ch 2 was a bit better, but still not what I would have expected. Ch 1 lost some of its "depth". I switched out the 4 EL-84's and the V 1-5. Are you referring to the 5Y3 or have I done all that I could?

 

[tiger roach]

Can you dumb this down for me a little? I recently re-tubed my LSS with JJ's and was basically underwhelmed. Ch 2 was a bit better, but still not what I would have expected. Ch 1 lost some of its "depth". I switched out the 4 EL-84's and the V 1-5. Are you referring to the 5Y3 or have I done all that I could?

The V1-5 are the preamp (+misc) tubes, and that's where Platy and Timmerel are saying the JJ's don't seem to work out as well. If you search the forum for "12AX7" you can find some good stuff on this topic, that's what I have been doing the last hour.

 

[guitarvet]

There was a special JJ V tube that had to be placed in the V5 spot. If I retube with my stock Mesa's, is there one designated to go in that spot?

 

[Platypus]

There was a special JJ V tube that had to be placed in the V5 spot. If I retube with my stock Mesa's, is there one designated to go in that spot?

That was the balanced phase inverter, it allows the amp's Class A/B operation to function smoothly.

Yes, there is a specific tube that is 'balanced' that will need to go in that slot when you put your Mesa preamp tubes back.

 

[Mick]

I've had the chance to play thru a LSS with Mesa tubes, JJ's(V1thruV5 and power tubes, JJ's in V1 thru V5 with Groove Tube EL84's and the combination that I think has the smoothest singing tone which were NOS TESLA 12ax7's in V1 and V2 and 4 NOS TESLA EL84's from KCA NOS Tubes (sorry I don't know how to post a link). Total for the Teslas I think was about $200.

Also, as far as buying a balanced 12ax7 for the phase inverter(V5). Mesa doesn't seem to place too much importance on it. My V5 went south 2 days after I got the amp and the dealer replaced it with a regular Mesa 12ax7 and said they didn't supply special phase inverter tubes.

 

[timmerel]

This from Speedy McFeely:

"I use NOS (new old stock) RCA 5751 tubes in V1 and V2. The 5751 is essentially a quiet heavy duty 12ax7. I use jj 12ax7s and a NOS GE 12at7 in the reverb driver socket. The 12at7 is a lower gain/ higher output preamp tube that is less noisy and harsh than a 12ax7, and they are perfect for reverb drivers."

Too many choices!

 

[Cheez]

Some flavor of NOS tubes perhaps?

The only NOS I've searched out & bought so far is the RFT ECC83. It's pretty Mullard-like, but way cheaper ($35-40). Very sturdy. It has a fairly dark tone (fattens SCs well), and a beautiful break up. I've heard several people referr to them as a "blues tube" (SRV used 'em).

My current curiosity is leaning me toward a Tungsram ECC83. It's supposedly very much like the RFT (and therefore Mullard), but with a little more headroom. They're kind of hard to track down, and I've seen prices range from $45-80. :shock:

Current production, I've used JJ and EH. The JJ was... OK. Better than the stock sino tubes that came in my old triaxis. The EH is very well balanced, very low noise, but just kinda... bland.

Somebody here posted this link a while back - great info / reviews / tests.

 

[tiger roach]

Too many choices!

No kidding. I'm making a spreadsheet of the options I've picked up from various threads here. I'd like to share it but doesn't look like we can attach files on this board.

 

[timmerel]

Played engineer with the JJ 12AX7s again today, and none of the combinations worked for me - I think I'll stick with the stock Mesa's in the preamp and JJ EL84s in the power amp. I'm very happy with the tone on both channels with this setup. Also discovered putting a compressor before the amp rather than in the effects loop gives a much nicer sustain boost, adding in a little harmonic feedback when required.

If anybody who likes the JJ 12AX7s would like to buy 5 of them (including a balanced one for the phase inverter) in new condition for $20 plus postage from London, let me know.

P.S. Am I the only one who finds getting the shiny cover back on the preamp tube near the transformer (V3 I think) nearly impossible without a wrench?

 

[guitarvet]

Yes- I wish I knew about just switching the '84s two weeks ago. I'm just now getting the feeling in my fingers back...

 

[timmerel]

Speedy put me onto these guys too:

http://www.torresengineering.com/

 

[stu-LSS]

timmerel, put a bit of gos (spit) round the rubber seal on the little blighters before you screw them in. makes it well easy.

 

[timmerel]

I spit on your amplifier! Ptui!