screamingdaisy said:
Jim Ed Love said:
screamingdaisy said:
The unfortunate truth is that new tubes generally suck. Mesa, non-Mesa... doesn't matter. They're all a crap-shoot on whether you get good ones or not. For example, I've blown three of those Tung Sol 12AX7 reissues straight out of the box and I have another 5 of them that have been going good for 2 years.
Yeah, I know. I use places like the Tube Store or Jim Mcshane to buy tubes because they test the tubes on good equipment and take care doing it. I don't trust Boogies testing anymore.
I buy all my tubes from The Tube Store, including all the ones that failed on me. I still buy from The Tube Store because I'm not silly enough to blame their testing methods for the failure of fragile glass tube shipped to me via the Postal Service.
ScreamingDaisy (& All) -
Thank you for the level headed reply here! I'm gonna dig myself ‘into’ this subject for a second and hopefully not dig myself ‘under’ with the many fine forumgoers who have been here a lot longer than me. Forgive me in advance for the length, or if this comes off as a rant. It’s an important subject for all tube amp fans to have a good understanding of (Screamingdaisy obviously does, IMO)…
While Mesa can't wholeheartedly agree that "generally all new tubes suck" (and I’m sure Daisy has some tongue-in-cheek going on here) there is some truth to that statement - IF - one is comparing today's tube manufacturing to the tubes built decades ago. Tubes made then were undeniably more reliable, largely because they were being manufactured primarily for military appplications. You can bet the military was pretty adamant about tube reliability and not as interested in TONE.
BUT, more importantly - tubes still failed then, and the people using devices that relied on those tubes knew how to service those devices by changing tubes when they went bad. MOST importantly, they also knew how to diagnose which tube(s) were bad, and they weren’t intimidated by troubleshooting tube failures because tubes were in use in LOTS of different devices then – consumer and military.
The bigger issue now (besides tubes not being as reliable or long lasting) is that generations of people have now been insulated from how tubes work (or don’t)
and what to do when they don't.
The upside of modern tube manufacturing (somewhat depending on what sounds you’re after), is that much higher fidelity is available in current tube manufacturing since tubes are being designed and built almost exclusively for TONE and not for the military...
The details of tubes and troubleshooting are vast and not reasonable to be covered in one post or this thread, BUT - in an attempt to shake it down to the most basic level, it's VERY important for any owner of a tube amplifier to understand that tubes are very similar to a heavy duty light bulb and, just like light bulbs, they are designed to fail at some point and need to be changed when they do.
ANY tube from ANY manufacturer or tube retailer/reseller has the same potential to fail regardless of who manufactured OR tested it. No company can test a tube for reliability although some vague predictive testing is possible and certainly a part of Mesa's aerospace derived, computer testing processes (more on this in a future post.
It's important for Mesa owners to understand that it is in Mesa's best interest to provide the very best tubes we can - and we do. It makes no sense for Mesa to cut corners on THE component which is at the heart of the company’s history and success. Especially when...
This thread shows such a great example of people associating a bad amplifier or a bad company out of a tube that fails. That failure, whether premature (within 6 months) or after years of toneful service, is not under anyone’s control. Tube life is also subject to how one uses their amp to a smaller degree but this is not the main factor. Again, tubes are very much like heavy duty light bulbs and they fail when they fail. We certainly don’t associate a bad lamp manufacturer with a light bulb burning out, so why would we do this with an amplifier?
If Randall Smith has figured anything out in designing and building tube amps for the last 40 years, it’s that the amps are only as good as the components that are used. This is somewhat problematic given the unpredictability of tube failure - Mesa, or any tube reseller for that matter, only has so much control over the lifespan of the tube, and for this reason, Mesa's testing equipment and procedures are some of the most extensive and advanced on the planet.
Addressing both the title and the subject of this thread - both miss a crucial point in understanding how vacuum tubes work and how to fix problems with tubes/amps when they arise. The biggest miss here and misunderstanding in general -
the entire set of tubes in an amp does not go bad at one time. It's very unlikely that any more than TWO tubes are bad and while possible, rare. In Jim Love's case, ONE tube has probably gone
weak and is likely an input or driver preamp tube causing the sound of the entire amp to suffer since it affects all modes/channels. Finding the likely ONE bad tube and replacing it SHOULD be the mindset amongst tube amp players of any brand not to mention knowing which preamp tubes affect the whole amp or only certain modes. Yet, many contniue to suggest that entire sets of tubes go bad and this is just never the case. In ATR's case, you probably don't need a full set of tubes, you just need to find the likely bad one in your amp and replace it, which is why Mesa sent you two tubes and not a full set.
The reality of problems with tube amplifiers is that the user/owner needs the knowledge to diagnose, troubleshoot, and replace tubes in order to solve these issues, especially given the aforementioned quality of the state of current tube manufacturing. On that note, Mesa will be offering some extensive tube troubleshooting videos in the near future which should really help everyone along TO LEARN (almost like learning songs or riffs on your instrument, but different) so stay tuned for that.
In the meantime, Mesa Customer Service and myself included is happy to help people with troubleshooting, diagnosing and ultimately teaching people the lost art and science of tube maintenance and troubleshooting – something that, once you know, allows one to appreciate the imperfect magic of the vacuum tube.
My apologies for the long winded bit - couldn't help myself. We geniuinely hope this helps and open to comments and suggestions here or otherwise. Please stay tuned for more and better info on this vast, deep and important subject from Mesa in the coming months.
Rant off
