Is the Express effects loop line level or instrument level?

[Furvel]

Hi, folks! Glad I found this forum, as I've had my eye on an Express for months now. This FX loop topic is something that may be changing my mind about an Express purchase, though. With my previous tube amp (Fender HRD) I ran my time-based Boss pedals through the FX loop (parallel, I believe) using long (10-to-20 feet, depending on the gig) instrument cables, and ran my Boss OD pedals ran into the front end, of course. This always worked great, with no appreciable signal loss. After reading this thread, and poring over the Express manual, Mesa says their FX loop is best suited for rack effects and very short cables. Since a series FX loop contains the whole amp signal, I see why they don't want me running it out to the front of the stage with 20 or 30 feet of instrument cable. But using time based FX into the front end, after the OD pedals, doesn't work well either.

Perhaps a compromise would be to keep the time-based pedals close to the amp when patching them thru the FX loop, while keeping the OD pedals at their traditional place at the front of the stage, running into the front end of course. I wouldn't have easy access to the looped pedals, maybe only being able to turn them on/off between songs. Or maybe my low-brow Boss pedals just aren't a good match for a high-brow amp like the Express. At least that's the impression I get after reading the Express owner's manual. It's gonna break my arse to buy an Express (not complaining, I've wanted a NICE amp for years) so I sure won't have any leftover funds for new FX gear. Either way, I'm looking for some input from Express owners, thanks!

 

[MrMason]

Furvel, don't let this discussion sway your opinion away from the Express. The Express honestly has the best effects loop I've ever heard. I'm using 4 stomp boxes in the loop, and there's no discernible depreciation of tone (no more than any pedal will add regardless).

 

[Furvel]

Furvel, don't let this discussion sway your opinion away from the Express. The Express honestly has the best effects loop I've ever heard. I'm using 4 stomp boxes in the loop, and there's no discernible depreciation of tone (no more than any pedal will add regardless).

Assuming that you're using average length instrument cables to connect your stomp boxes, I'll take this a hearty endorsement of the Express series and its FX loop. After all, it's not like I can waltz into the nearest music store with all my stage gear to see how a 5:25 would do in every aspect... there's just some things I have to find out in other ways, like poring over this forum, and Harmony Central, to see what Express owners have to say. Thanks for the help!

 

[Newysurfer]

Furvel, don't let this discussion sway your opinion away from the Express. The Express honestly has the best effects loop I've ever heard. I'm using 4 stomp boxes in the loop, and there's no discernible depreciation of tone (no more than any pedal will add regardless).

Assuming that you're using average length instrument cables to connect your stomp boxes, I'll take this a hearty endorsement of the Express series and its FX loop. After all, it's not like I can waltz into the nearest music store with all my stage gear to see how a 5:25 would do in every aspect... there's just some things I have to find out in other ways, like poring over this forum, and Harmony Central, to see what Express owners have to say. Thanks for the help!

Hey Furvel ... like Mason said - just ignore this thread. The guy who started it got his amps wrong - his problem actually hapenned with an F-50 which has a parellel loop. He says so on another thread. The 5:50 has a great Series loop which are always much better for time based effects than any parallel one. So what I'm saying is that the 5:50's series loop is much better than your Fenders with a parallel one. And there's zero signal loss on the 5:50 unless you use a 100 metres of cable and pedals with poor quality buffers :mrgreen:

 

[Furvel]

Furvel, don't let this discussion sway your opinion away from the Express. The Express honestly has the best effects loop I've ever heard. I'm using 4 stomp boxes in the loop, and there's no discernible depreciation of tone (no more than any pedal will add regardless).

Assuming that you're using average length instrument cables to connect your stomp boxes, I'll take this a hearty endorsement of the Express series and its FX loop. After all, it's not like I can waltz into the nearest music store with all my stage gear to see how a 5:25 would do in every aspect... there's just some things I have to find out in other ways, like poring over this forum, and Harmony Central, to see what Express owners have to say. Thanks for the help!

Hey Furvel ... like Mason said - just ignore this thread. The guy who started it got his amps wrong - his problem actually hapenned with an F-50 which has a parellel loop. He says so on another thread. The 5:50 has a great Series loop which are always much better for time based effects than any parallel one. So what I'm saying is that the 5:50's series loop is much better than your Fenders with a parallel one. And there's zero signal loss on the 5:50 unless you use a 100 metres of cable and pedals with poor quality buffers :mrgreen:

Another vote of confidence...excellent! I was kinda thrown off-track by the Mesa manual, where is states that the FX loop is optimized for pro quality rack mount processors. It's odd that Mesa's entry level series of amps, the most portable amps they make, has an FX loop designed with pro rack FX in mind... huh??

Nonetheless, I will forge ahead with my planned purchase. I've been gigging for thirty years, but have always had to "make due" with whatever amp I had at the time. If only I hadn't spent so much money on PA gear.. well, someone had to buy it. Good news came my way recently though... I checked the IRS witholding calculator http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=96196,00.html and it turns out I'm due for a fat tax refund for 2009, more than enough for an Express 5:25.. woo-hoo!

Thanks again for the help!

 

[Don]

I have to agree with Mr Mason and Newysurfer, it's a great amp with a great effects loop. I use it regularly at all kinds of volume levels with no problems.

 

[Newysurfer]

While the Express amps are amongst the cheapest that Mesa make presently doesn't mean they're "entry level" IMO. Whatever that means exactly. The 5:50 is still an expensive amp comparatively with other brands and there's nothing entry level about its tones, features or build quality. I'd call my Roland Cube 60 bedroom amp "entry level". Having played many Mesa's I think the 5:50 is one of the best they've ever made. I consider only the Mark V and the Roadster to be overall better. And from a bang for your buck point of view they're unbeatable IMO.

My take from the Mesa "Pro quality rack mount" comment in the manual is that you'll maximise sound quality by using pro quality rack effects. As these are often the best quality effects money can buy anyone can rightly say the same about any amp.

 

[Furvel]

While the Express amps are amongst the cheapest that Mesa make presently doesn't mean they're "entry level" IMO. Whatever that means exactly. The 5:50 is still an expensive amp comparatively with other brands and there's nothing entry level about its tones, features or build quality. I'd call my Roland Cube 60 bedroom amp "entry level". Having played many Mesa's I think the 5:50 is one of the best they've ever made. I consider only the Mark V and the Roadster to be overall better. And from a bang for your buck point of view they're unbeatable IMO.

My take from the Mesa "Pro quality rack mount" comment in the manual is that you'll maximise sound quality by using pro quality rack effects. As these are often the best quality effects money can buy anyone can rightly say the same about any amp.

Sorry, I meant the phrase "entry-level" in terms of affordability only, which the Express literally is. Certainly an entry-level Mesa is leagues beyond an entry level Fender or Peavey!! It's just that with my budget the Express is the only Mesa I could consider buying new, and I'm still keeping an eye out for used options. I'm actually very appreciative that Mesa has something within my financial reach.