Is Mesa striking out in their Brit tone quest?

[YellowJacket]

Make a MKIIC+R. Make it awesome!

If that ever did happen, I see it being on a custom shop, build to order basis. The reality of it is that "crow" has a bitter taste to it, and nobody at MESA wants to eat it.

I do love my RA-100, loaded with STR-416's and various non-stock preamp tubes. 8)

But how many people would eat crow if there were $$$$$$$$$$$$$s attached to it? You'd think Mesa would re-release the amp if there was sufficient money in it.

 

[KH Guitar Freak]

Thing is though, a lot of classic tunes even with crunch tones have been through V30 speakers... 8)

Which flavor of V30? There's a distinct difference in tone and response between the Marshall, Mesa and regular off the shelf version.

I would think it would have more to do with the construction of the cabs than the speakers themselves. I don't see how the Mesa cab can't crunch nicely however. Works great with plenty of amps...

 

[screamingdaisy]

I would think it would have more to do with the construction of the cabs than the speakers themselves. I don't see how the Mesa cab can't crunch nicely however. Works great with plenty of amps...

They're totally different speakers. Just looking at them side by side you can see they're not even made the same. In order to avoid pulling this one off topic I stuck the comparison in another thread;


http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=60388&start=0

 

[J.J]

Hmmm. I was listening to some Heartbreaker clips the other day and it became apparent to me that this amp was the predecessor to the Electra Dyne. Also, I noted that the Heartbreaker sounds fantastic. When I was first amp shopping I overlooked it and bought a Dual Rectifier.

I have wondered the same about the Heartbreaker. It does seem to be the start of the American and Brit tones in one box for Mesa.

People often tell me "Mesa's not my thing, I tried one once and didn't like it" which makes me smile. I'm not a die hard Loyal Mesa guy, but every time I have gone amp shopping in the last few years the Mesa amps stood out for me, having the tones, features and quality level for the money.

The Mesa and Metal comment is the highest praise. Any company that reaches icon status has arrived. I feel that Mesa should continue to lead the evolution of metal with new products in that area and remain king. Another cool thing I am seeing is that as new country music gets more rock in it, you see more Mesa gear on stage. Pretty cool...

When I was buying my RA-100 a guy from a local country band had just traded his Fender amp (I think thats what he had) for an RA-100 because he needed more aggressive tones as well as the great clean.

 

[J.J]

Thing is though, a lot of classic tunes even with crunch tones have been through V30 speakers... 8)

Which flavor of V30? There's a distinct difference in tone and response between the Marshall, Mesa and regular off the shelf version.

+1

 

[JOEY B.]

Make a MKIIC+R. Make it awesome!

If that ever did happen, I see it being on a custom shop, build to order basis. The reality of it is that "crow" has a bitter taste to it, and nobody at MESA wants to eat it.

I do love my RA-100, loaded with STR-416's and various non-stock preamp tubes. 8)

But how many people would eat crow if there were $$$$$$$$$$$$$s attached to it? You'd think Mesa would re-release the amp if there was sufficient money in it.

And therin lies the quandry. An HONEST re-issue would have to sell for $3500+ in order to justify all the labor put into it. How many 2-channel amps would be sold at that price point? :shock:

 

[thunda1216]

do they *really* have "brit tone quest?" maybe they just want a combination of nice usable clean channel and nice overdriven channel. which works for me. if I really wanted "brit" tone, I would have a Marshall. Don't. Don't want one. Borrowed a Silver Jubilee once when my Heartbreaker blew a rectifier tube and was NOT impressed. Cleans=meh. Distortion=meh. NO boost. Blah. One trick pony. That's why I keep coming back to the Mesa.

 

[KH Guitar Freak]

I would think it would have more to do with the construction of the cabs than the speakers themselves. I don't see how the Mesa cab can't crunch nicely however. Works great with plenty of amps...

They're totally different speakers. Just looking at them side by side you can see they're not even made the same. In order to avoid pulling this one off topic I stuck the comparison in another thread;


http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=60388&start=0

Yes, but I'm pretty sure the Mesa and Marshall cabs sounds vastly different because of the construction itself...

 

[Heritage Softail]

On the selling point of 3500 for a MKIIC+R:

They would sell. An SLO is a few bucks but there are many out there. I knew the IIC high gain tone to expect when I found my IIC. The clean channel is what was the stunning surprise. Diezel and Bogner are pricey. If Mesa put out a 3 channel version, true to the original and with a modern metal 3rd... That could be the MKVI. The giant killer.

I could sell my Uberschall TJ! When you think about the money people like us spend getting the 3 or so main tones, to hit it flush on all 3 with one quality amp for 4K. That is worth it. Pretty much the idea behind the Bogner Ecstacy 20th anniversary amps.

 

[JOEY B.]

On the selling point of 3500 for a MKIIC+R:

They would sell. An SLO is a few bucks but there are many out there. I knew the IIC high gain tone to expect when I found my IIC. The clean channel is what was the stunning surprise. Diezel and Bogner are pricey. If Mesa put out a 3 channel version, true to the original and with a modern metal 3rd... That could be the MKVI. The giant killer.

3 channel??? I said an honest re-issue, complete with shared tone controls and all. How was the clean channel on the IIC a surprise? It's based on a Fender amp. :shock:

As far as MESA "Brit" tone goes, my RA-100 has a great clean channel with reverb, unlike many of the "Super Lead 100" clones. So I guess a compromise will be in order. 8)

 

[danyeo1]

do they *really* have "brit tone quest?" maybe they just want a combination of nice usable clean channel and nice overdriven channel. which works for me. if I really wanted "brit" tone, I would have a Marshall. Don't. Don't want one. Borrowed a Silver Jubilee once when my Heartbreaker blew a rectifier tube and was NOT impressed. Cleans=meh. Distortion=meh. NO boost. Blah. One trick pony. That's why I keep coming back to the Mesa.

Then why do they stick "brit" modes on their amps? Why do they mention the term "Brit" in their marketing more times than Robert Plant screams Baby in a Led Zep song? Mesa is the one who prints this garbage not me.

 

[danyeo1]

On the selling point of 3500 for a MKIIC+R:

They would sell. An SLO is a few bucks but there are many out there. I knew the IIC high gain tone to expect when I found my IIC. The clean channel is what was the stunning surprise. Diezel and Bogner are pricey. If Mesa put out a 3 channel version, true to the original and with a modern metal 3rd... That could be the MKVI. The giant killer.

I could sell my Uberschall TJ! When you think about the money people like us spend getting the 3 or so main tones, to hit it flush on all 3 with one quality amp for 4K. That is worth it. Pretty much the idea behind the Bogner Ecstacy 20th anniversary amps.

Funny isn't it how nobody cared about the IIC+ until about 2002 or so when Kirk Hammet and Petrucci started spouting off how great these amps were, then you couldn't find one for less than $2500. I bought one in 1999 for $1400.

 

[screamingdaisy]

Funny isn't it how nobody cared about the IIC+ until about 2002 or so when Kirk Hammet and Petrucci started spouting off how great these amps were, then you couldn't find one for less than $2500. I bought one in 1999 for $1400.

Very few people cared about 2 channel Rectifiers until this forum started up and a few people really started generating the pre-500 hype.

Prior to then the only Recto that really stood out consistantly was the T-verb, and now people are hardly interested in it because it's not an early enough revision. Yeah, the odd person would mention George Lynch's pre-500 comment, but by that time his music hadn't been relevant for years and no one really cared what Lunch thought about anything.

It's funny how one man's off handed comment in an interview can steer a whole industry....

Sometimes people focus on things for all the wrong reasons...


On a side note, how many people even knew which amps Hetfield used on which album prior to Montyjay's gear site? I'm sure that contributed to the price increase of the C+ too...

 

[Heritage Softail]

On the selling point of 3500 for a MKIIC+R:

They would sell. An SLO is a few bucks but there are many out there. I knew the IIC high gain tone to expect when I found my IIC. The clean channel is what was the stunning surprise. Diezel and Bogner are pricey. If Mesa put out a 3 channel version, true to the original and with a modern metal 3rd... That could be the MKVI. The giant killer.

3 channel??? I said an honest re-issue, complete with shared tone controls and all. How was the clean channel on the IIC a surprise? It's based on a Fender amp. :shock:

As far as MESA "Brit" tone goes, my RA-100 has a great clean channel with reverb, unlike many of the "Super Lead 100" clones. So I guess a compromise will be in order. 8)

It was a surprise in that all I ever heard about the IIC was the high gain comments. I personally enjoy some Dire Straits type playing more often than Metallica.

I would have to say the cleans, not crunch, of the SLO are not it's strongest point. The MKIIC is equally good at each. That is part of what makes it my fav amp now. Just need to record it in stereo with the TJ and see how that sounds. I'm thinking a dark and evil sort of Alice in Chains.

 

[CoG]

Okay, how many years have you guys been gearheads and you haven't yet realised that mass market amp sales make no sense whatsoever through this kind of lens? :lol:

Biggest factor in the industry is that the economy is in the tank, especially for "aspirational" guys. The fragmentation and deprofessionalization of music (not that this is a bad thing in other areas) means that official or even viral endorsements are less effective than ever. An amp company has to have a thing. Orange's advantage is that they are actually making their money on their ****** low-end gear, so their big amps can be loss leaders; plus they have a visual branding thing which works well in the world of Apple. Marshall has a seemingly indestructible brand (and judging from their build quality enviably low production costs :lol: ) Mesa's advantage is that randall smith seems to run a very, very tight ship on the production side. There may have only been 2500 RAs sold so far but I am pretty sure that there's no room full of 500 unsold RAs somewhere and they have recouped R&D and any tooling costs. If you have really good control of your production line and overhead it's really hard to have a "failure" in a cost sense unless you went apeshit in product development or promotion.

What do you expect, anyway? The last "big" thing to happen in amplifiers in terms of establishing a major new line or style that artists played and consumers bought was Orange, basically. And that's been going on for a decade. If Mesa's still in business they're doing fine compared to other comparable music- or non-music manufacturers.

From a non-business point of view, hell yes, this insistence on V30s is a bad thing. My RA sounds, IMHO, just straight-up bad through a Recto 2x12 which is supposedly the secret-sweet-spot cab in the whole lineup. Otherwise, tonally it's an excellent set of compromises, I would need three amps to replace it (and, in fact, it replaced three amps.)

 

[JOEY B.]

Hype about any product is usually generated by a need to sell said product. I don't think that George Lynch was trying to sell any of his amps when the Pre-500 comment was made. There was a definate circuit revision that took place. I also don't think that Hammet or Petrucci were trying to inflate the value of their amps. Also, no one person on this forum could ever influence resale value of either amp. There is no conspiracy to drive up the prices of either amp.

I am a huge fan of George Lynch, and do not own a MESA Rectifier of any revision. I am not a big Metallica or Dream Theater fan, and own a C+. So, where's the logic?


I bought my RA-100 for $1300 to the door, but it was right before Christmas last year, and the seller was needing money. I knew that I could flip it if I didn't like it. 7 months later, and I still have it.

I played the RA-100 and C+ in stereo a few weeks ago, and it was BRUTAL!

 

[richb]

idk,I've owned a crap load of mesa boogie amps over the past almost 20+ years of playing boogie and the RA-100 does it for me!The word "brit"that mesa uses is just a added flavor,pls don't get caught up on it being like a Marshall etc...The player makes the amp,and since the early 90's mesa made there mark with the duel recto and mk series amps,the amps mesa has been putting out besides the for the past few years just show that a company can broaden their capabilities and reach different levels for different kinds of players.
When the RA-100 came out,the funniest thing to read was:"Can the RA-100 do metal"?
I think just hearing the name/title of a new amp it will get judged by from many.
As far as amps reselling on a used listing for cheaper than the norm,(People need cash)the economy is horrendous so 6 out of 10 guitarists in the past buying new amps the #'s have maybe lowered to 2 OR 3 of 10!And then there's the guy who buys a new amp and realizes he can't keep it due to his current finances..(so sell for cheap).
Richb

 

[danyeo1]

idk,I've owned a crap load of mesa boogie amps over the past almost 20+ years of playing boogie and the RA-100 does it for me!The word "brit"that mesa uses is just a added flavor,pls don't get caught up on it being like a Marshall etc...The player makes the amp,and since the early 90's mesa made there mark with the duel recto and mk series amps,the amps mesa has been putting out besides the for the past few years just show that a company can broaden their capabilities and reach different levels for different kinds of players.
When the RA-100 came out,the funniest thing to read was:"Can the RA-100 do metal"?
I think just hearing the name/title of a new amp it will get judged by from many.
As far as amps reselling on a used listing for cheaper than the norm,(People need cash)the economy is horrendous so 6 out of 10 guitarists in the past buying new amps the #'s have maybe lowered to 2 OR 3 of 10!And then there's the guy who buys a new amp and realizes he can't keep it due to his current finances..(so sell for cheap).
Richb

I like the RA and the Electra Dyne, it's mostly the marketing Mesa writes up which is pretty hiliarious if they really believe that garbage they write.

 

[Tommy_G]

Mesa is always trying new and different things, and some ideas bomb, and some work. My problem is that they don't seem to learn enough from their 'bombs' nor do they seem to learn a lot from their successes.

However, one has to give them credit with trying a lot of different ideas out in the marketplace without really trying to build a cornerstone model that they sell for the next 50 years. They got a lot of expertise in channel switching, and I'm just waiting for them to figure out a formula that meets my needs better than what I currently use (Heartbreaker). Hint: A RI Heartbreaker with full 5 channel switchability (and maybe an additional preamp voicing to channel 2 to make it a 6 voice amp), attenuation, and designed around a 6v6 platform, not a 6L6 platform and/or power tube switching in nothing more than a 50W amp. It must be able to sag, which simply doesn't happen with this amp despite the marketing BS to the contrary (good luck getting sag out of a power supply designed to deliver 120W.....duh).

 

[borisson]

Mesa is always trying new and different things, and some ideas bomb, and some work. My problem is that they don't seem to learn enough from their 'bombs' nor do they seem to learn a lot from their successes.

However, one has to give them credit with trying a lot of different ideas out in the marketplace without really trying to build a cornerstone model that they sell for the next 50 years. They got a lot of expertise in channel switching, and I'm just waiting for them to figure out a formula that meets my needs better than what I currently use (Heartbreaker). Hint: A RI Heartbreaker with full 5 channel switchability (and maybe an additional preamp voicing to channel 2 to make it a 6 voice amp), attenuation, and designed around a 6v6 platform, not a 6L6 platform and/or power tube switching in nothing more than a 50W amp. It must be able to sag, which simply doesn't happen with this amp despite the marketing BS to the contrary (good luck getting sag out of a power supply designed to deliver 120W.....duh).

i just want the TA30 channel 1 with rectifier sound in channel 2, both in one amp....(vox+rectifier)