IQ Test

[Spherion]

Any idea how to connect the GCX Audio Switcher with the following signal path in mind?

Keep in mind the following:
1. Effects are shared to both amp loops (If I run out of 8 loops, the effects can come after the ADA MP-2 preamp)
2. Amps should be A/B switched
3. The preamp/amp share one channel each of the stereo INs on the Marshall 1960B cab.
4. Idealistically, each MultiFX unit would have its own loop on the GCX, but if I have to combine and bypass via MIDI to conserve GCX loops that's fine.
5. Ignore the wah for now. I can patch that in later.
6. At LEAST TWO loops are reserved for Mesa Boogie TR Channel Switching (unless there's a way to A/B them in one or two loops--that'd be great).
7. I have two channels on the Pro Hush. I could probably put CH B somewhere at the end of the FX loop as well for two points of noise reduction.

Loops Assignments:

FRONT PANEL
Guitar IN:
Feed Thru:

BACK PANEL
Guitar OUT:
Feed Thru:

GCX LOOP 1
IN:
SEND:
RETURN:
OUT:

GCX LOOP 2
IN:
SEND:
RETURN:
OUT:

GCX LOOP 3
IN:
SEND:
RETURN:
OUT:

GCX LOOP 4
IN:
SEND:
RETURN:
OUT:

GCX LOOP 5
IN:
SEND:
RETURN:
OUT:

GCX LOOP 6
IN:
SEND:
RETURN:
OUT:

GCX LOOP 7
IN:
SEND:
RETURN:
OUT:

GCX LOOP 8
IN:
SEND:
RETURN:
OUT:

 

[NoGlassNoClass]

GCX Loops 4,5,6,7,8 as switching (latching type) to the external switching jacks on the TR Ch 1,2,3, Loop, Solo.

Guitar > transmitter > reciever > wah > GCX front panel IN.
GCX back panel guitar out > loop 1 in
GCX back panel feed thru > loop 2 in
jumper cables across loop 1,2 send>return
loop 1 out > TR
loop 2 out > ADA preamp
This way you can mute the input to either amp seperately or run them both.

GCX MIDI out to preamp, and daisy-chain MIDI from there thru each FX device. Now in one stomp you can ABY amps, switch the TR, and call up any preset on the ADA and FX units.

ADA preamp stereo outs to the Eventide > TC > Yamaha > power amp. Dont bother with the ADA's FX loop...you thought the one in the TR sucked well this is worse. You can run stereo all the way thru the rack, or mono out of the last effect to one channel of the power amp depending if you want to rewire the cab. Either way this is a lot of power to the stock speakers and you will kill them sooner or later. High power speakers or using 2 (better yet 3) cabs is really your best option. I know it's costly and a pain in the *** to haul around, but look at the rest of your rig both in complexity and cubic dollars....if you short-change yourself on speakers you're never going to hear half of what this setup can do.

This is how I would do it, and is only one of may possiblities. IMO the less wire and fewer connections, the better your end results will be with better tone, less noise, and less that can go wrong.

Patience here is more than a virtue...its a requirement. Be ready for lots of programming, and chasing ground loops, hums, other weird noises. This rig will be KILLER when its done, but it will take a while to sort everything out.

Beware (this is why I gave up on my '80s refrigerator-sized rack).... The tone you want IS in there, but with literally millions of possibilities you may never find it. Good luck my brother.

 

[NoGlassNoClass]

OOOPS I failed the IQ test. Do NOT put the jumpers across loop 1 & 2 send/returns. Leaving them open is what will mute the signal to whichever amp. Sorry.

 

[clutch71]

Uh...4?

Sorry, couldn't resist

 

[Spherion]

Alright, I *think* I got everything working, although I'm yet to try your setup to see if it's better than what I have going now. Currently I can switch almost everything on/off and, by accident, I don't have to use the solid state ADA power amp (that's a VERY good thing)!

Somewhere in the process, unintentionally, I realized that by switching out the input to the Mesa Boogie TR but turning ON the OUT of the ADA, it can route to the Mesa's FX RETURN IN, thus using the Mesa's TUBE power amp to go out to all 4 speakers. That's awesome for me.

At this point, I'm not looking to layer both amps on top of each other although I may experiment in the future. Question is, am I correct in thinking that by muting the in on the Mesa and having the ADA MP-2 route to the FX RETURN, I am essentially COMPLETELY bypassing the preamp section of the TR? It 'sounds' good to me, but I want to check to make sure I'm not putting preamp power sections into each other.

You're right about the MP-2's FX loop. Not because it's bad (I've always thought it was extremely functional (not to mention programmable) and quiet), but it would defeat the purpose. I will have to setup all FX wet/dry mixing from within the FX presets to allow them to blend with each other correctly in the mix. Doing that, then setting the FX loop mix on either the Mesa or the ADA would be counter productive so no FX loop with the ADA MP-2.

Right now, I'm hitting several buttons on the GC Pro to turn off things that don't work together (i.e., deselect the ADA preamp, hit another button to allow the output, deselect one Mesa channel and select another), but I'm pretty sure I'm correct in the assumption that these can be patched to preset banks.

I can't tell you how helpful you've been NGNC. I really doubted anyone would care to think through my entire setup. I'm not even sure *I* would put that much thought into someone else's setup. Thanks, man!

 

[NoGlassNoClass]

It's nothin' but a thing, bro...glad I can help you out. The monster you are building here is VERY similar to my late '80s too-much-of-everything rig but with a few modern conveniences like the switching system. FWIW here's how I did it........

Guitar > Vox wah > TS9 overdrive > Hush > Whirlwind ABY> Marshall 6100 head
The 6100 ran into one 1960B cab for the dry tone.
ADA MP2=Korg A2 multiFX=Yamaha SPX90=DBX 166 comp/lim/gate=FX returns of 2 JCM800 heads, each driving 2 1960 cabs for wet. ART X-15 MIDI controller ran everything (the 6100 had MIDI switching built in)

Eventually I got rid of the ADA, the SPX 90, the compressor, and the two JCM800's and ran the 6100's Line Out to a 31 band EQ, the Korg, and a Marshall 9200 power amp.

Complicated, heavy, took up too much room on stage, expensive, and too loud but it sounded unbelieveable. Been thinking for a while about going the w/d/w route again, and working out your rig has actually been very helpful to me, so thank you my friend. It has however also reminded me of why I went back to a head and a few stompboxes. I do miss the big rig.......we'll see what happens.

 

[NoGlassNoClass]

....Question is, am I correct in thinking that by muting the in on the Mesa and having the ADA MP-2 route to the FX RETURN, I am essentially COMPLETELY bypassing the preamp section of the TR? It 'sounds' good to me, but I want to check to make sure I'm not putting preamp power sections into each other.

You are correct. Putting the ADA (or the end of the rack signal path) into the Triple's loop return, and then A/Bing between the TR and ADA inputs bypasses the TR preamp when the ADA is selected.

You *might* be able to blend both preamps by sending the guitar signal to both the TR and the ADA, and using the FX Mix on the TR to balance between them. Worth a try...it wont damage anything but it might sound like sh!t.

 

[Spherion]

What do you think about splitting all the FX SEND and RETURNS with Y-cables? Half the presets on all the FX boxes take advantage of stereo effects, pans, etc. It seems I'd be missing half of the effect by coming out mono, i.e., stereo panning would sound more like tremolo swelling in and out--even IF it does eventually mix back to a mono return on the switcher (and eventually the FX return on the TR).

I went out and bought a bunch of Y-cables and hooked them up this way but it sounds like a lot of phasing. I can't tell if that's because the TR FX loop only goes to about 90% on the return and creates the phase there.

(Did I mention that TWO LED's look better than one in a dark room? Heh...)

 

[NoGlassNoClass]

Most of the better FX processors will automatically sum their outputs to mono if only one cable is plugged in. It should say next to the jack somewhere like output right left (mono). If you run stereo all the way thru the rack and come mono out of the last piece you should be getting the whole signal. This may vary with whatever gear, so consult the manuals when in doubt. If there is no mono out, you may have to use a Y cable or just run the whole thing in mono from the start of the chain.

This is where patience in experimenting comes in....if it sounds good it is good. If it doesn't, sometimes its best to just walk away for a while and come back with a fresh idea.

If you get really stuck try this. Take all your manuals and a pencil and paper, and put them in the bathroom where you can reach them from the throne. Order a big fat pizza, drink some beers, and wait. Inspiration often strikes when you are alone in a quiet place with no distractions, so where better???

 

[fatoni]

who cares, you are playing a mik s :lol: either the old s or the newer s is going to sound leagues better. sorry i dont know anything other than guitar to amp but i am one of those old s fanatics