Intelligent Pitch Shifter Recommendations for the Mark V

[Supreeth]

Hi All,

As you know I've been experimenting with a bunch of pedals and processors to go with my Mark V. So far I've kind of settled on the T-rex replica for delays, BB plus for overdrive/boost, and the Red Witch Empress for Chorus. The one other effect I need is an intelligent pitch shifter with the ability to play harmonies in key at specified intervals (and also include support for custom scales). This may be the one effect that dictates whether I can stay with individual pedals or if I need to migrate to a full blown effects processor. I did some research and found the following.

1. Eventide pitch factor
2. Digitech Harmony man
3. Tc Gmajor 2
4. Fractal Axe-Fx ultra
5. Tc G system

I've owned the Boss GT-10 and PS2 and was not very pleased with their interpretations of intervals though I may have set it up wrong. Please share your experiences/recommendations/non-recommendations for intelligent pitch shifters.

Thanks,
Supreeth

 

[theroan]

The pitch factor is definitely the best one. Don't know about TC and I know that the Digitech sucks.

 

[cam]

I've never set up any custom scales in the Ultra but the guys at Fractal's Forum like it. One thing for sure is if you go the Ultra route, you have a buttload of other top quality effects at your disposal. I heard a patch the other day that was a violin patch... freaky real sounding! There's a youtube video of one of them...

Talk to javajunkie about custom scales if you decide to look at the Ultra.

 

[Supreeth]

Thanks guys.

I checked out youtube vids of the pitchfactor and also the fractal forums for about 5 minutes. That fractal forum seems like a very active forum which is great!!

Both the pitchfactor and the ultra sound awesome, and the ultra really seems to be loaded with goodies that are actually usable. If I get the pitchfactor, then I'll have to worry about another power supply and long cables plus an expression pedal. If I get the ultra, it costs more plus I have to get a MIDI foot controller and expression pedal plus learn to use the ultra. But this minimizes cables, allows me ultimate flexibility because of user patches and who knows I might not even need my disto pedal anymore. Doing some quick math if I replace all my pedals (They are all still well within the return period for full refund) with the ultra and get a MIDI controller then I will wind up spending about $1000 more which is a lot of money in these times but it's a simpler high quality setup for sure and eliminated the tap dancing I will have to do if I go all pedal.

Cam, how do you like the ultra? Do you use the amp models on it too, or do you strictly use it as an effects processor?

It's unbelievable how I thought last week that I was all set with a really simple setup, and less than a few days later here I am again looking for more effects :lol: Ah, the joys of being a tone searching guitarist!!!
Thanks,
Supreeth

 

[Iconoclysm]

The TC G-Force has the best pitch shifter I've ever used, the G-Major's is pretty average. The G-System's pitch shifter keeps receiving software updates and started out absolutely horrible. Now, it's completely customizeable and sounds exactly like the G-Force's, but with none of the presets already including the intelligent functionality, you have to build everything from scratch.

 

[guitardom]

to my knowledge the pitchfactor is not a true "intelligent" pitch shifter. you have to set the key and scale to harmonize.

 

[Supreeth]

The TC G-Force has the best pitch shifter I've ever used, the G-Major's is pretty average. The G-System's pitch shifter keeps receiving software updates and started out absolutely horrible. Now, it's completely customizeable and sounds exactly like the G-Force's, but with none of the presets already including the intelligent functionality, you have to build everything from scratch.

Thank you. The G-System sounds like a great choice since it is an integrated system and one does not have to worry about getting a separate MIDI controller/amp switcher etc. but I've not heard many good things about the intelligent shifter yet. Does it also have fancy stuff like the crystal echoes etc? I will do more research into it for sure and scour the area for these products so I can try them out. I think in the end it will be a toss up between the eventide, g-system, and the axe-fx ultra with the axe-fx being the most prohibitive in terms of cost and additional components to purchase.

 

[Supreeth]

to my knowledge the pitchfactor is not a true "intelligent" pitch shifter. you have to set the key and scale to harmonize.

I don't quite understand. Isn't this true for all pitch shifters? I would think that you would have to specify a scale and an interval for the harmonizer to work well. I guess this begs the question as to what "Intelligent" means. I've seen shifters that can guess the key based on a chord that you play and then choose the key from there, but are there actually pitch shifters that can recognize say a harmonic minor scale on the fly? If so I'm getting it tomorrow Isn't that what custom scale options are for on most pitch shifters? Forgive me if I sound ignorant but I am not very well versed in the way pitch shifters work!

 

[4406cuda]

I had the G Force and was very happy with it when I was using it with the Triaxis. Best Pitch Shifter I ever used. I sold it all to get the Mark V.

 

[guitardom]

to my knowledge the pitchfactor is not a true "intelligent" pitch shifter. you have to set the key and scale to harmonize.

I don't quite understand. Isn't this true for all pitch shifters? I would think that you would have to specify a scale and an interval for the harmonizer to work well. I guess this begs the question as to what "Intelligent" means. I've seen shifters that can guess the key based on a chord that you play and then choose the key from there, but are there actually pitch shifters that can recognize say a harmonic minor scale on the fly? If so I'm getting it tomorrow Isn't that what custom scale options are for on most pitch shifters? Forgive me if I sound ignorant but I am not very well versed in the way pitch shifters work!

ooohhhh tough question.

DEPENDS..... :?

i have an eventide h3000 d/se, so my experiences might be a bit different.

w the h3k, there are algorithms that will detect the note input and play say a 3rd above and below the note inputed and will not need a key or scale. other algorithms you will set the key and scale for say an a minor and have a plethora of notes on top of the note you play or just a simple 3rd and fifth of course depends on the algo. it is situation dependant. i usetypically micro pitchshifting, so only a few cents above and below w a bit of delay and of course do not need know key or scale for what i am doing. so it is really situatuation and gear dependant

 

[rispsira]

Hi Supreeth!

I think your question is a tough one to answer because it has to do with the whole setup your gonna have and not only pitch shifting. Welcome to gear confusion!

What i would say regarding the pitch shifting is that eventide has been/is still the best at it but that's just my opinion.

If you are looking for a full processor then you could get the eclipse which is on the verge of a new update which will include all the effects from their stompboxes.

Lots to think about, i think it should all start with planning what you want.

I wish i was a bit more helpfull

Its just that i have been going through the same thing about a lot of other stuff and you dont wanna take a road youll regret taking later (though you can still sell etc) so id say take your time and ask more questions!!!!

Takecare Bro!

 

[Supreeth]

ooohhhh tough question.

DEPENDS..... :?

i have an eventide h3000 d/se, so my experiences might be a bit different.

w the h3k, there are algorithms that will detect the note input and play say a 3rd above and below the note inputed and will not need a key or scale. other algorithms you will set the key and scale for say an a minor and have a plethora of notes on top of the note you play or just a simple 3rd and fifth of course depends on the algo. it is situation dependant. i usetypically micro pitchshifting, so only a few cents above and below w a bit of delay and of course do not need know key or scale for what i am doing. so it is really situatuation and gear dependant

Thanks man. I agree that it is sependant on the situation. With the regular scales it shouldn't be a problem as long as the shifter can play the harmonies in key at various intervals. I like the idea of micro pitchshifting. Isn't that what spurred Steve Vai's Xavian scale? I also play a lot of exotic scales, mainly of Indian origin. I might be able to map some of them directly to various modes of the major scale but for the others I'll definitely need the ability to create custom scales.

 

[Supreeth]

Hi Supreeth!

I think your question is a tough one to answer because it has to do with the whole setup your gonna have and not only pitch shifting. Welcome to gear confusion!

What i would say regarding the pitch shifting is that eventide has been/is still the best at it but that's just my opinion.

If you are looking for a full processor then you could get the eclipse which is on the verge of a new update which will include all the effects from their stompboxes.

Lots to think about, i think it should all start with planning what you want.

I wish i was a bit more helpfull

Its just that i have been going through the same thing about a lot of other stuff and you dont wanna take a road youll regret taking later (though you can still sell etc) so id say take your time and ask more questions!!!!

Takecare Bro!

Thanks man!! You answer was very helpful in that I took a step back and re-thought what I want I know I want to be able to play many exotic scales in harmony and also use the pitch shifter/delay to create some nice ambient and spacey tones. Most of my playing is very direct and uses only delay and reverb to fatten up my leads. Sometimes I use chorus too. Most all other effects are "nice to have." Time for more research now. Thanks!!!

 

[guitardom]

ooohhhh tough question.

DEPENDS..... :?

i have an eventide h3000 d/se, so my experiences might be a bit different.

w the h3k, there are algorithms that will detect the note input and play say a 3rd above and below the note inputed and will not need a key or scale. other algorithms you will set the key and scale for say an a minor and have a plethora of notes on top of the note you play or just a simple 3rd and fifth of course depends on the algo. it is situation dependant. i usetypically micro pitchshifting, so only a few cents above and below w a bit of delay and of course do not need know key or scale for what i am doing. so it is really situatuation and gear dependant

Thanks man. I agree that it is sependant on the situation. With the regular scales it shouldn't be a problem as long as the shifter can play the harmonies in key at various intervals. I like the idea of micro pitchshifting. Isn't that what spurred Steve Vai's Xavian scale? I also play a lot of exotic scales, mainly of Indian origin. I might be able to map some of them directly to various modes of the major scale but for the others I'll definitely need the ability to create custom scales.

it might be worth it to look at some fancier pitch shifting units like an old h3k/35k/4k or so, which are built like tanks! or an eclipse which are newer units but dont seem to have the same....regard or loved as much as the older units and there old outdated converters and the beloved front end designed by dave derr!! but are fixable and can get serviced and even have warranties.

 

[Iconoclysm]

The TC G-Force has the best pitch shifter I've ever used, the G-Major's is pretty average. The G-System's pitch shifter keeps receiving software updates and started out absolutely horrible. Now, it's completely customizeable and sounds exactly like the G-Force's, but with none of the presets already including the intelligent functionality, you have to build everything from scratch.

Thank you. The G-System sounds like a great choice since it is an integrated system and one does not have to worry about getting a separate MIDI controller/amp switcher etc. but I've not heard many good things about the intelligent shifter yet. Does it also have fancy stuff like the crystal echoes etc? I will do more research into it for sure and scour the area for these products so I can try them out. I think in the end it will be a toss up between the eventide, g-system, and the axe-fx ultra with the axe-fx being the most prohibitive in terms of cost and additional components to purchase.

As you'll see in the G-System thread, there are issues with it and the Mark V as far as amp switching goes. It definitely can do all of the fancy stuff but it has less factory presets than the older G-Force, and those presets were always something I built off of. A software editor is now available so people can trade patches online, so that's a start.

The Axe-FX did too much that I didn't want it to do, specifically the preamping, and that just seemed like a waste because you're paying for that. I've stuck with TC products for about 10 years now, so I really couldn't ever give you a fair comparison to the Eventide, but they're both in the same league...at least until the G-System which is more convenient but less user friendly/plug 'n play.

 

[Supreeth]

As you'll see in the G-System thread, there are issues with it and the Mark V as far as amp switching goes. It definitely can do all of the fancy stuff but it has less factory presets than the older G-Force, and those presets were always something I built off of. A software editor is now available so people can trade patches online, so that's a start.

The Axe-FX did too much that I didn't want it to do, specifically the preamping, and that just seemed like a waste because you're paying for that. I've stuck with TC products for about 10 years now, so I really couldn't ever give you a fair comparison to the Eventide, but they're both in the same league...at least until the G-System which is more convenient but less user friendly/plug 'n play.

Yes, I actually spoke with Chris from Mesa yesterday regarding switching the Mesa w/G-system and he discouraged me from doing so. Either way I'll need an RJM/Axxess for the switching so the deciding factor is the quality of the effects. Both TC and AFX seem to have good forums where information is easily available. Those software editors for the TC processors are a God-send. I had a Gmajor that was just a pain to program especially with those two flimsy wheels that they had on it!!

Yes, with the AFX you're paying for the preamps but I think where they'll shine through is in direct recording when extremely different types tones are required. By all reports they sound better than all the other modelers out there. I personally have no reason to use the preamps of the AFX other than to quickly record ideas; but it might bail someone out in a live situation if the main amp fails as you can go direct with it to the PA.

This one's going to be an interesting decision but ultimately it'll depend on the sheer quality of the effects. In terms of pitch shifting, none of the TC products support custom scales which I really want but I'll be trying out some TC stuff in local stores. I ordered a pitchfactor so I can try it out and it should be here by friday. i don't think there's any way for me to try the AFX unless I go down to tonemerchants and that's a 2 hour flight!! Thanks again for the inputs!

 

[Iconoclysm]

Are you sure about the custom scales and the TC products? I recall the G-Force doing that, and the G-System practically makes me dizzy when I start looking at the parameters, I just assumed that some of those were related to custom scales.

 

[Supreeth]

Are you sure about the custom scales and the TC products? I recall the G-Force doing that, and the G-System practically makes me dizzy when I start looking at the parameters, I just assumed that some of those were related to custom scales.

I looked at the manuals of the G system but did not find the option there. I have posted the question at the G-system forums just to be sure

cheers,
Supreeth

 

[Iconoclysm]

Are you sure about the custom scales and the TC products? I recall the G-Force doing that, and the G-System practically makes me dizzy when I start looking at the parameters, I just assumed that some of those were related to custom scales.

I looked at the manuals of the G system but did not find the option there. I have posted the question at the G-system forums just to be sure

cheers,
Supreeth

That's the thing, they didn't add the intelligent pitch shifting until later and it seems the manuals are not up to date with the current firmware or just don't elaborate on it.

 

[cam]

i don't think there's any way for me to try the AFX unless I go down to tonemerchants and that's a 2 hour flight!! Thanks again for the inputs!

Not true Grasshopper... you can fly to Kansas City or St Louis, I'll pick you up and you can try the AFX "with" the V....

BTW.. I think Fractal has a 15 day return policy.