Ice pick trebles, mic angle and amp angle

[Maury]

Whenever I audition a new amp, dial in my tone with a current amp, or simply play gigs with my amps, the amp is almost always sitting on the floor, aimed at my legs. I do understand that I'm not hearing an accurate representation of what's coming directly out of the speaker, but that's just what I'm used to. FWIW I've always aimed the mic straight at the center of the cone, not angled at all - because that's what the sound guy asked for.

I've been trying to aim my LSC right at my head at these last few gigs but no matter what I EQ, I hear the "ice pick" trebles and attack of my thin pick. I'm not digging it. All those years with my amp on the floor, I must have been sending a VERY ice-picky tone to the mic, if my amp sounds bright enough to my ears off-axis. But I can't be sure what to do. On the floor I love my tone.

Those of you who gig, and have been here before... do you think I'm over-reacting? Maybe I shouldn't worry about the tone I'm sending to the sound guy (can't believe I'm saying that)? Maybe in the mix, the treble isnt' ice-picky? Maybe the proximity effect has been adding bass to the mic helping things too? TIA for any help.

 

[plan-x]

Well, outta site, out of mind. Or is it outta hearing, outta mind. Most venues I play (small) I try to avoid mic'ing. Which really demands a consistant tone. At the knee's, at the head, or more importantly, what I hear should be what every one hears. To think you have been ice-pick'n audiences forever is not a great thought. Granted a good sound guy can fix the problem, but where are those guys? (ha ha) I find that my ear is the best! Yeah you heard me. And you'd better realize yours is too. We are guitarists. Who better at hearing it all? Drummers, Bass players, Vocalists etc? I doubt it. Who can write, play, and mix a whole album? Guitarists of course! Well sound guys hardly qualify as musicians, usually they are frustrated players at best. And if he is an accomplished musician/guiatrist, then you are probably in good hands. But if you know your ice-pick'n, and this guy doesn't mention it. Then I'd be worried. There are ways to fix this. Stay tuned I'll be Back. Gotta go.

Ok I'm back. Here's the solution. This link leads to the original link from TGP which is extensive but dicusses mic'ing as well.
http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=41349&hilit=mitchell

Also alot of cabs all over the place, guarantee a consistant tone but isn't practical at gigs. At my practice room I'm currently using 5 cabs and 2 amps to power them. A Lonestar amp can run up to 4-8 speakers cabs if the ohm load is delt with properly.

 

[Maury]

well THANKS! I just ordered 4 sheets of 3/4" and I'll report back after I've tried 'em. Very cool.

 

[plan-x]

You are among the wise to investigate this further, and I am open to this highly underlooked problem. I did try Weber beam blockers originally, but Jay Mitchell was right, they aren't blocking the highs that emanate from the cone's edges. So I was getting an off axis ice pick. Then I tried a shield. That worked, but the overall tone was so masked and throaty, and vol so severely cut I had to crank my amp up. In the old days(the70's) we would turn our cabs around backwards. Pretty much had the same effect as a shield, resulting in a very throaty sound. I also tried the old pro's trick of taping an X on the grill over the speaker's center. But that is a primitive Beam blocker. The Doughnuts aren't perfect, but they correct a good 75-95% of the problem IMO. Installation on a pig is alot of work, but well worth it. The new EQ changes needed are minimal.

 

[Maury]

Well I've never been told I was among the wise before

When you say installation is alot of work, do you mean getting foam behind the entire grill cloth of the amp's face, or more work than that?

 

[plan-x]

All you got to do is insert the foam into the back side of the grill frame. But to get the grill off, you must remove the chassis. For alignment of center hole, remove speaker(s). To get speaker out, remove reverb. That's basically the whole amps contents.

 

[Maury]

Thanks. I'm not specifically afraid or lazy when it comes to taking an LSC apart -

I'm the loon who stuffed his LSC into a shell the size of an Express 5/50 1x12

http://i.b5z.net/i/u/1530927/f/lonestarexpressclone.JPG

 

[plan-x]

Oh yeah, how's that working out?

 

[Maury]

Really good actually. I lost a little bit of the gigantic lush cleans, but the lead channel sounds nice since its a little more focused. Both bands I play in force me to play with pretty quiet stage volumes anyway, so the portability has been very nice and there hasn't been a downside yet. Here's a short clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1f_elyihaM&feature=player_embedded you can see it behind me (white shirt, strat).

 

[plan-x]

Ok, I revisited those vids and have a couple questions/comments. You guys sound really good. And I think you nail a couple of those vocal stylings. What amp does the other guitarist (Tim?) play thru? (Boogie) Your drummer needs a travel kit(Ha ha) with 4 mounted toms, cymbals everywhere. Who does sound? Is it your stuff? Oh, and one last thing, what's with the title "Shellshocked Churchhills etc.". Is that the bands name or how you affected those people?

 

[Maury]

Well thank you Tim plays a '76 Strat through an Express 5/50 1x12. We did sound from the stage... we had 2 Bose towers behind us, and one 18" subwoofer in front of us, center. We mic'd my amp, my vocals and my acoustic into my Bose. Mic'd Tim's amp, and his vocals into his Bose. We mic'd the drums with a separate mixer into both Boses, and the bassist just cranked up his amp. Yeah Rob (drummer) likes quality AND quantity

SSCH is the name of the band, and believe it or not, when we all wrote down ideas for band names, that was one of the more normal choices.

 

[Maury]

I ordered the foam over the weekend and received it today. I don't mean to sound like a cliche, and I don't want to admit that this solution seemed too good to be true but THIS WORKS WONDERFULLY! Now I can dial in my tone the way I always have, but if I sit down on the floor and put my ears in the direct laser beam path of my amp the sound is the same as it was when I was standing in front of the amp, and even off to the side a little bit.

This really changes the game for those gigs I do when the amp is not mic'd and it's the sole source of my tone for myself and the audience.

WOW I'm converted. Thank you Plan-X, Mr Mitchell, and everyone in those threads for an incrediby interesting read, and great solution. FWIW I needed 2 12" pieces of foam to to my LSC big blue. I still have 2 extra sheets and I'll do my lil' mini 1x12 next.

 

[plan-x]

Wow, that was a fast tear down and rebuild. Ok! That's one less guy ice pick'n the audience. Not only that...but the rest of the band gets to hear what your hearing. Obviously they could care less. Maybe until now. Congrats.

 

[Maury]

thanks! now I have to convert them
;0)