I need more sustain!!!!!!!!

[strapsi]

Hi, i´m from germany and new on this forum. We have a mesa boogie forum, too in germany, but no one could help me there. The most guitar players in gemany playing marshall or engl amps, couse the mesa is more expensive. Please sorry of my english-and please answer so similar as possible...thanks..my problem:
I play an triple rectifier solo head. i love this amp. but i´m searching for a high gain lead sound!!!! some like an engl leadsound...
I use the red channel for playing solo´s, with presence 10:00, Master 12:00, Gain 04:00, Bass 12:00, Middle 05:00, Treble 05:00. That setting is the best result for me to get a highgain lead sound. but it´s not enough... i play an gibson es paul standard with alnicoIImagnets (498T) and a engl 4*12 Vintage 30 box.
I changed the tubes last week to get a better result but there´s no better. i have the SPAX 12ax (on V1)and the 12AX from Mesa Boogie. and 6l6 from Mesa code yellow.
I need more gain in the red channel. could i get it with some other tubes??
I tried to put a pedal in front of the amp. an ibanez tubescreamer-nothing. i tried an boss eq in the loop like slash does for solo sound-not really...at least i tried an vox brit bulldog tube booster-forget it.
i need an boost pedal that gives me much gain and feedback. an this pedal only should boost my red channel to get my lead sound.
i could read in other threads that many use an maxon 808 to boost the sound. or an bad monkey or fulltone fatboost.
i couln´t test the pedals here in germany-we have only boss and Behringer and ibanez boxes...

So please could you help me, could i change something on my amp, like changing the tubes, to get an leadsound or should a take a good pedal to give the red channel the extra kick...

i need more sustain-i couldn´t play any tapping with this low gain.. don´t understand why...please help me!!!!!

thanks


Rob

 

[Lopp]

Hi Rob,

You should have no problem getting excessive amounts of gain from your TR. Adding a TubeScreamer in front shouldn't be necessary and if you did add it, you should be screaming for less gain. It sounds like you have a problem with your rig.

I'm not that familiar with the 498T pickups, but for ease of troubleshooting, let's assume you can get enough gain with them.

To troubleshoot, first play your guitar through another rig that has should have enough gain/sustain, using the SAME cable. If you don't have enough gain, swap out the cable or the guitar to narrow it down.

If your guitar and cable sound good through another rig, you might have an amp problem.

 

[metalblitz84]

I agree with Lopp. If you troubleshoot and find there is nothing wrong just look at your settings. Also, you might want to look into a good compressor. That smooths out the tone and will also help you with sustain if you find a good one. Good luck!!!

 

[clutch71]

Gotten Tag!

+1 on what Lopp said. I bought a used 2ch DR and experienced a similar problem. Turns out I had a bad grid resistor. Was relatively inexpensive to fix(66 USD) and cost mostly bench time. Not sure if you have a Mesa approved techs in Germany.

I've been trying a lot of footpedals to run in front of the amp lately. I've found the Ibanez TS808 to be the quietest and really tightens up a DR and adds sustain. They are hand wired in Japan. The Ibanez TS9DX is nice too but I found I just used it in the TS808 mode.

For harmonics and tapping I found EL34's to be a bit more responsive. Tube combinations are like beer choices; everyone has there favorites. I run Groove tube EL34 LS quartet and love them plus they are easy to find.

Welcome to the board.

 

[stompboxfreak72]

Welcome to the Boogie Board!

First, I know exactly what you mean. The Rectifier has plenty of gain ....but no sustain ! If you are able to play leads with your Rectifier without an overdrive then you are much more talented than anyone I know.

start by monkeying with your tone controls. I personally prefer Vintage mode because you can push the amp and not get stupid volume. I like a Maxon Ts9 ( its just a Tubescreamer) in front of the amp. I crank the output on the pedal but keep the tone and overdrive dialed low.

Also, I like delay in the loop. I hate a dry sounding amp.

Check out the "Amp Settings" page on the board. The is a real good one named "marshall tone" or something like that under the Dual Rectifier settings. I use that setting with a Tubescreamer , delay in the loop and an EVH Phase 90 and I can tap a la Eddie for hours.

Let us know how things progress.... I hated my Rec for 6 months before I finally weaseled some sustain out of it.

 

[Pyro]

There is a reason you never see instrumental guitarists use the Recto

Its such a great Amp for everything else but for solo's it just makes you wanna cry. You start at the 1st to 5th frets with a monster mesa sound and end up at the 15th to 22nd frets with a guitar port.

I agree with the others that you should try pedals cause, after all, they are made for situations like your's but if you have no joy with that them i'm afraid you're gonna have to look at a differant series.

Its very annoying though, i know. Particularly when someone else playing the same nigt as you pisses all over you're lead sound with a cheap Laney

 

[Travis]

I would say to change the pickups first, have you tried a guitar with the right set of DiMarzio's? I think you will find them much different than the Gibson pickups which i think are more blues, rock oriented. I recommend pickups from a JS1200 or JEM . :wink: 8)

 

[ToneAddictJon]

I don't know why people keep saying recto's are not good for solos, they are amazing!!!
I would say, first things first, check the action on your lp and make sure your pickups aren't too close to the strings, these will affect your sustain more than anything else.
Try different guitars in it and make sure it's not the guitar, I've played plenty of gibsons with low action and no sustain.
The action and pickups will also affect tapping more than the amp, you should be able to clearly hear tapping straight from the guitar, if you can try tapping on the clean channel, if you can't hear it then it's the pickups.
Volume is huge as well, turn up the amp, it needs to be opened up to sound right.
From what you describe, I think it's your guitar more than the amp. Good luck

 

[strapsi]

Thanks for your answers. i will go to the next music shop next week to make a troubleshouting. first a try another guitar. then another rectifier. perhaps i could find the reason.
but i wonder about the different meanings. i think the dual rectifier had more gain than the triple, cause the triple has more watt.
i prefer the gibson guitares because they have so warm tone. i play punkrock and the gibson with the rectifier sounds great.
perhaps the dual is more aggressive than the triple.

greetings
Rob

 

[trem]

Thanks for your answers. i will go to the next music shop next week to make a troubleshouting. first a try another guitar. then another rectifier. perhaps i could find the reason.
but i wonder about the different meanings. i think the dual rectifier had more gain than the triple, cause the triple has more watt.
i prefer the gibson guitares because they have so warm tone. i play punkrock and the gibson with the rectifier sounds great.
perhaps the dual is more aggressive than the triple.

greetings
Rob

Hey there Rob,
Wattage does not translate to "gain" or overdrive level.

Just in case you didnt know, typical guitar and amp setup has the following structure:
Guitar > Pre-amp > Power-amp > Speaker

A head amp (like your TR) have its pre-amp and power-amp in one packaging. Most of your sound shaping (distorting, or "gain", and eq) happens in the pre-amp. Power-amp is where all of the processed signals get amplified to a desired sound level.

Now amp wattage pertains to the power amp section, which means how much amplification (which translates to perceived loudness and headroom) the power-amp can deliver. More watts, more volume, more headroom, and vice versa.

Dual Rectifier has lower wattage than Triple, meaning compared to TR, the DR will be less loud (not by much though) and have less headroom (better description). So, again, wattage has no relation to "gain". And btw, headroom means the amount of volume the amp has before the power-amp starts distorting.

There may be some truth though if someone says that lower wattage amps are more "agressive", since on the lower wattage amps you can overdrive the power amp section easier.

~trem

 

[NoGlassNoClass]

I too am a big fan of the Gibson > Recto tone. I found a decent useable lead tone pretty quickly, but was always searching for that "something more" tone in my head. The balls of the Triple but sings like a Mark. I think I'm getting pretty close, using an MXR EQ pedal as a boost.

Try using your EQ into the front end of the amp instead of an overdrive/distortion type pedal. Search this forum for a thread called "Marktifier Experiment" where I posted detailed settings for both amp and EQ. The guitars used were Gibson Flying V's (one mahogany, the other korina) with stock 496/500 Gibby pickups.

+1 on guitar setup. Pickup height makes a huge difference...too close = boomy and less sustain. Too far = thin tone and less output. Too low action and/or improper trussrod adjustment can also kill your sustain. Action too high makes for poor intonation and a difficult-to-play instrument.

 

[Silverwulf]

For those that think the Recto can't do leads, check out Nevermore's "Dead Heart in a Dead World" album or about 75%+ of John Petrucci's solos.

 

[guitarmaster]

:!:

 

[Silverwulf]

For those that think the Recto can't do leads, check out Nevermore's "Dead Heart in a Dead World" album or about 75%+ of John Petrucci's solos.

+1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V42BqMg9kZ0

Great album, and I do like the lead tones on it...actually, I like the rhythm tones on it too for a Bb tuned guitar... \m/

 

[domct203]

I'm happy with my lead tone as well with my Roadster, but could never say that about my Triple. Don't get me wrong, I had a very usable lead tone with the Triple, but my Roadster really comes alive cranked at 50W, (Ch 3 Vintage is my fav), which tells me I prefer less headroom with more Power Tube saturation and sustain in my tones, but that comes on at high volume. An EQ or other boost will create that sustain in the amp when playing at lower volumes. Modern and 'squeaky' Cleans are best left to 100W (or more) IMO.

The Triple's 150W rating gives a lot of headroom. High gain sounds are really in the pre-amp with that amp, and the Triple IMO does the best Modern of all the 3-channel Recto's, but I am a lot happier with my lead tones (and cleans) from my Roadster.

Moral: Keep trying and tweaking the amp. I'm sure you will find your tone in there somewhere.

Dom

 

[Pyro]

For those that think the Recto can't do leads, check out Nevermore's "Dead Heart in a Dead World" album or about 75%+ of John Petrucci's solos.

+1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V42BqMg9kZ0

-2 John Petrucci has never played a solo on a Recto.

And the nevermore vid........not such a great example. he had

Ampeg, krank and peavey heads..IN THE VID with marshall cabs

 

[ToneAddictJon]

-2 John Petrucci has never played a solo on a Recto.

And the nevermore vid........not such a great example. he had

Ampeg, krank and peavey heads..IN THE VID with marshall cabs

what about train of thought?? Thought that was all roadking and lonestar and same with octavarium.

 

[guitarmaster]

:!:

 

[trem]

JP certainly have used Rectos for soloing, but how did the guy came up with the 75% figure? :lol:

~trem

 

[guitarmaster]

:!: