How well does the Triaxis do the MarkIIC+ sound?

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JT_Marshmallow

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I am very pleased with my Studio Pre, but I am contemplating upgrading to a Triaxis if it will provide a comparable IIC+ lead sound. I figured this would be a good place to ask since there are people with experience with the Studio Pre, IIC+, and Triaxis that might be able to describe the difference.

(Now since I've never sat down with a Triaxis nor do I know anyone who owns one, this next paragraph is only my idea of it at this point after a little research.)

From the reviews I read, the Triaxis is superb imitation tone. "Imitation tone" - that's a word I used to describe my stock ADA MP-1 a few years ago. I'm sure the Triaxis sounds 10 times better than an ADA, but I can understand why the Triaxis still might only get 90% there on each of its tones. The vibe I get from my Studio Pre is that the tone is very "real", unlike the tone I used to use with my Boss GT-6's amp modeling for example. Might I be giving that up that divine "realness" if I upgrade to the Triaxis?

I am really only interested in the Triaxis if it will deliver what my Studio Pre gives me now, or most of it. Any thoughts?
 
we are talking about tube preamps...each is different, i have the tri ,quad ,studio and formula....the tri,quad and studio can all sound like the IIC+ in some form or another ...but the tri is more sterile...digitial that is...but not all IIC+ amps sound's alike so which one is the tri modded after?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? huh go figure ?????
try a tri before you buy... the studio has the best reviews of all preamp's though... other than the bogner fish which is only 200 made...
 
The Triaxis is definitely NOT "imitation tone"... the same circuits are used for each mode. You just don't get to cycle through all the infinite values of each potentiometer like you would on a "normal" amp. (The digital "knobs" on Triaxis only give about 15 steps between 0 and 10... which is more than enough for most people.) The only things digital about the unit is the midi patch selection/storage, and the knob-turning controls. Everything else is all-tube, all analog.

The only place where they might use opamps(transistors) instead of tubes is in the Dynamic Voice control. There is a weird distortion that appears if you blast the RHY1 or RHY2 modes too hot (at 9 or 10 gain). The manual even says you should turn down the master to avoid overloading the dynamic voice circuit. I'm not sure if this is a "flaw" in the Triaxis, or if the 5-band EQ on other 'real' Mark amps has this same limitation.

I don't have any of the amps TA was based on so I can't compare there... all I know is that the LD2 channels definitely rock some great tones! The Metallica Black album sound is super-easy to get on LD2 Green or Red.
 
so if its all mostly analog explain all these ic chips

http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Rackmount-Preamps/TriAxis/Triaxis-close/triaxis-circuitry-close.html

how many do you see here

http://www.tubefreak.com/quad.htm
 
from the tube freak

Mesa/Boogie Triaxis - Tubes & Opamps




Nope, I do not own a Mesa/Boogie Triaxis preamp. But I did study it's schematic, have been a member of the Triaxis Yahoo Group for a long time and found some things that might be of interest for Triaxis users to get the best possible sounds.

After studying the complaints, manual and schematic of the Triaxis I think I've found some interesting points to get prevent sonic problems with the Triaxis. Many Triaxis' "suffer" from buzzy sounds. One source if this problem is the use of Russian and Chinese tubes, imo, another because people use low gain settings in combination with high drive settings. The last can easily be solved be experimenting a lot with various settings and reading the manual. Using the right tubes is also a must. The Triaxis is a high quality amplifier, why would you use the lowest quality tubes available? Using good tubes doesn't have to cost a fortune, but will breath live, dynamics and detail in the Triaxis you've never heard before.


The OPAMP problem
But there is another source of buzzy sounds in the Triaxis: the use of an opamp! Yes that's right, the beloved machine uses an opamp, a TL072 to be precise. Don't worry it's not used to make the distortion (as with most Marshalls), but it's used for the Dynamic Voice. And when the internal volume is too high, the TL072 gets too much signal and starts to overdrive.... which in this case is not nice and unwanted.

This same opamp was also used to get more distortion out of many Marshalls (JCM900, JMP1, etc.), Mesa/Boogie V-Twin and many other (pre)amps but in those cases it was tuned differently then now. So in all cases try to avoid overloading the opamp. One way is to keep the volume low and just turn up the output pots and power amp. Using a lower gain tube for V3 is going to help too. Several types of tubes are worth checking out although my main focus would lay on 12AT7/ECC81 (mediocre gain) and 12AU7/ECC82 (low gain) tubes. GE 5751's are an option too, but have in most cases less bass then the previously mentioned tubes, therefor I would go with either 12AT7 or 12AU7. I've used these type of tubes many times before and various setups and with great results.


My advice on tubes for the Triaxis
V1 = high quality tube
V2 = high quality tube / non microphonics
V3 = lower gain tube
V4 = tube which is not microphonic
V5 = balanced tube! / lower gain tube if rec. outs are used or with high volume fx.

Either V1 or V2 is used as main input tube, depending on the settings. These are the first tubes your signal passes and therefor need to be of high quality. In fact the inputs are directly wired to the tubes, with nothing between them besides a on/off switch. V1 and V2 have the biggest influence on your sound quality. V2 is also used as gain tube for Lead1, therefor it should also be resistant to microphonics. Same thing counts for V4, which is the tube used for the Lead2 stages. I would look at NOS tubes for V1 and V2. And whatever you like for V4, as long as it is resistant to microphonics.

V3 is the tube placed between the programmable master volume and the Dynamic Voice. As mentioned before, the Triaxis uses a TL072 opamp for the Dynamic Voice and the signal always passes this opamp. Therefor I highly recommend using a lower gain tube with more headroom to prevent overdriving either the tube or the opamp. NOS 12AU7 or 12AT7 tubes would be my choice.

The FX Return go to the V5 tube, which is also the main output tube. A preamp tube has 2 sides which can be used to amplify a signal. In the case of the V5 each side is used to amplify one side of the stereo field. If both sides of the tube are not equal in quality then one side will be louder or different sounding then the other. So it's really important to use a good tested, balanced tube for this application. Phase Inverter tubes need to comply with these specs too, so in many cases a tube which was selected specifically for the use as phase inverter will do fine for V5 too. Please pay extra attention to this.

The recording outputs use a TL072 opamp as well. The programmable master volume is response for the volume present at the opamps. So to prevent overloading the opamp, keep the volume as low as possible. The front mounted output pots have no influence on the signal level at the recording outputs.

Because V5 is the fx return buffer and main output tube it's not a bad idea to look for a lower gain tube for this application as well. If you are using fx with high outputs, then the V5 tube can be distorted, using a lower gain tube, such as for V3 will prevent this.

Please check my Tube Advice page to see my view on different brands.



The signal line of the Triaxis
There is no easy way to draw the signal line so I'm just writing it down. A simple schematic would have been handy, but it's a pain in the *** to create an accurate one. The full schematics can be found at my Mesa/Boogie Schematics Page.

Here we go:
INPUT -> (V1) -> V2A -> EQ -> V2B -> (V4) -> V3A -> PRESENCE -> VOLUME -> TL072A -> DYNAMIC VOICE -> TL072B -> (FX SEND) -> (FX RETURN) -> V5A + V5B -> MASTER VOLUME -> OUTPUT

signal from V5 -> TL072A + TL072B -> RECORDING OUTPUTS

V1A = Input tube for Lead 1, it's only in the signal line when LD1 is engaged.
V2A = Main input tube for all other stages and gain tube for Lead 1
EQ = Treble (plus shift for different voicing), bass, mid
V2B = After EQ section
V4A + B = Lead 2, it's only in the signal line when engaged.
V3A = Pre dynamic voice
PRESENCE
VOLUME = programmable volume of each preset
TL072A = Opamp
DYNAMIC VOICE = programmable 6 band graphic EQ
TL072B = Opamp
FX SEND/RETURN = Only active when used
V5A + B = FX return for channel A and B, main output tube
OUTPUT + MASTER VOLUME = normal outputs, volume does not influence rec outputs
TL072A+B = Opamp (signal comes from V5
RECORDING OUTPUTS
 
from boogie

Most programmable preamps start with a digital control circuit and then adapt the audio to fit the confines of the digital framework. We weren’t about to compromise the audio just to take the short cut. Instead, our three years of research produced a patented technology which preserves in every nuance and detail the exact audio elements which made these classic sounds in the first place.The digital circuitry was forced to serve—not dictate the tone.
 
lionel69 said:
from boogie

Most programmable preamps start with a digital control circuit and then adapt the audio to fit the confines of the digital framework. We weren’t about to compromise the audio just to take the short cut. Instead, our three years of research produced a patented technology which preserves in every nuance and detail the exact audio elements which made these classic sounds in the first place.The digital circuitry was forced to serve—not dictate the tone.

its digital
 
lionel69 said:
lionel69 said:
from boogie

Most programmable preamps start with a digital control circuit and then adapt the audio to fit the confines of the digital framework. We weren’t about to compromise the audio just to take the short cut. Instead, our three years of research produced a patented technology which preserves in every nuance and detail the exact audio elements which made these classic sounds in the first place.The digital circuitry was forced to serve—not dictate the tone.

its digital
but it doesn't dictate the tone.
 
Think about it this way; when you tweak your amp, what you do is, basically, modifying the flow of electricity in the amplifier. If the interface is digital, then it does not imply that the signal is processed digitally. In the case of TriAxis, the signal is processed through an analogy circuit of which the interface is digital. Do you see any A/D D/A converters in the TriAxis? Mesa does not even mention any type of "khz" or "bit" resolution about the TriAxis.
 
Right. The key in the quote above is "digital CONTROL circuit". The Digital stuff is only for MIDI and to tell the Triaxis what to set the Treble, Mid, and Bass pots at (they're probably not pots but the metaphor applies). The actual controls that change the mid, bass, & treble are analog.

It is all-analog tone, but with digital control.

Thanks for the info on that opamp though, lionel. I'm going to investigate maybe adding a switch to take that out of the circuit on patches when I want to blast the tubes with the highest gain. It seems to distort even with the DV set to zero.
 
Wow! A lot of great responses. I do feel a bit more enlightened about the Triaxis now. I'm still considering trying one, but probably wont sell my Studio Pre to fund the purchase.

Well the main thing that sparked my interest in the Triaxis is the ability to easily change presets without ever having to walk over and twist a knob while on stage. This ease of use would be useful to me because I play in a wedding/party band where I'd have to go from a Brian Setzer tone to Richie Sambora and to a grunge sound all without having to go adjust the gain manually between songs (like on my knob-laden Studio Pre.)

The impression I got from the Triaxis reviews is that its hard to take the "brutality" out of the distortion on every mode. This makes me think it wont really cut it for the vintage sounds. Has anyone here pulled off good vintage tones with their Triaxis?
 
I think you can take the 'brutality' out of the sounds.... just don't use extreme settings on the Dynamic Voice, which scoops the heck out of the sound.

The rhythm modes and LD1 green/yellow modes are good for vintage sounds. I can't tell you whether it can do a Brian Setzer tone or not, but it does bluesy and half-distorted sounds really well in those modes.

The other modes (LD2 modes) to me are really best when doing heavier stuff like Metallica. But any kind of 80s rock can be done with these as well. It really depends on what you want to sound like. You can download the manual from Mesa's website and read what each of the modes is capable of. It's a very descriptive manual, and pretty much nails it on the head (except for the LD1 Red mode - which is like a mushy Marshall-y sound. It is definitely NOT a Recto sound - search the forums for "phat mod" to read about this.)
 
ChesterH said:
I think you can take the 'brutality' out of the sounds.... just don't use extreme settings on the Dynamic Voice, which scoops the heck out of the sound.

The rhythm modes and LD1 green/yellow modes are good for vintage sounds. I can't tell you whether it can do a Brian Setzer tone or not, but it does bluesy and half-distorted sounds really well in those modes.

The other modes (LD2 modes) to me are really best when doing heavier stuff like Metallica. But any kind of 80s rock can be done with these as well. It really depends on what you want to sound like. You can download the manual from Mesa's website and read what each of the modes is capable of. It's a very descriptive manual, and pretty much nails it on the head (except for the LD1 Red mode - which is like a mushy Marshall-y sound. It is definitely NOT a Recto sound - search the forums for "phat mod" to read about this.)

Ok that's good to hear. Good idea, I will check out the manual. I just wasn't sure about the vintage sounds because 95% of the Triaxis' reviews are by BC Rich-types and we all know it does a great metal sound. I want a Triaxis for that and much more and wanted to make sure it will deliver since I have no way of trying one out before I buy.
 
Lionel should stick to playing with trains since he just doesn't seem to get it... the Triaxis tone is as analog as any other Boogie amp. It has a digital interface to manipulate sounds and select voicings.

It definitely nails Mark II through Mark IV tones, but with the various controls, you may not dial in something exactly like what you dial in on the front panel of your Mark IV.

Note that the power amp has a huge influence on the sound, too. When you have a Mark IV or a Recto amp, the preamp and poweramp are in the same box. With the Triaxis, if you want to really nail a particular tone, pay attentio to the power amp.

The 2:Ninety is essentially the power amp section from a Mark IV with a few modifications, for example, but uses the same simulclass technology for Class A + Class AB tone generation. The Recto 2:100 is a power amp featuring the amp section of a Rectifier amp. Depending on what amp you pair with the Triaxis, you will influence the tone it delivers.

Sterile? No way. It is all tube, and has all the warmth you get from Boogie's best amps. But the tone is definitely more Mark series than Recto, in general.

And Lionel -- just joking re: the trains, but couldn't resist.

Scott
 
DMTransmutation said:
The impression I got from the Triaxis reviews is that its hard to take the "brutality" out of the distortion on every mode. This makes me think it wont really cut it for the vintage sounds. Has anyone here pulled off good vintage tones with their Triaxis?

i think that the opposite is true - actually it is rather difficult to make Triaxis sound extremely heavy or "brutal", in the vein of Recto or VHT amps. Tri is a very "midrangey" and bright sounding pre, which screams "classic rock", at least compared to what you hear coming from metal bands these day. so yes, you can get vintage tones no probs
 
Paired with the 2:Ninety, we're getting definitive Mark IV metal tones ala John Petrucci on the prog rock CD my band is in the middle of recording.

We're using a wide range of Boogies on the recording: Road King II, Tremoverb, Lone Star, and Triaxis/2:90 (and that's just the Boogie amps!). It is every bit as heavy as my Road King II, but with a slightly different type of heavy tone as it's simulclass vs. recto in the power section. But paired with this power amp, you will get definitive Boogie tone -- heavy if you want it, vintage if you want it, bluesy if you want it... really it's the most versatile Mark-series rig you can get.

Scott
 
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