How does the Express compare to other Mesa amps?

[DrKev]

A question for owners of other Mesa amps in addition to the Express: How does the Express series compare sonically to other Mesa models? Or even any other well-known benchmark amplifiers? What are the Express series unique characters?

Personally (having little experience with other Mesa amps) I'd think the clean channel is beautiful and probably very similar to the Lonestar. But I find the the Blues and Burn to be quite warm, veering into muddy, very heavy in the lower mids. Having more treble available wouldn't be a bad thing. I'm on my third speaker now (G12M Greenback, sounds great) and I can dial in sounds I really like, that's not the issue, but I'm surprised by the voicing. I wonder if anyone else thinks the same or if this is normal for these amplifiers?

Is the Plus series much different?

Also, it's the worst onboard reverb I've ever had. The tone of the reverb is fine, it just the circuit is weird overall. It scoops out the mids low on the dial, sounds fine from 10 to 12 o'clock, but then just makes everything louder and brighter without adding more reverb. The tank is fine, I've replaced the J175s with no difference so that's not the issue, so I think it's just the circuit is like that. Anyone else?

Thanks!

 

[spawnofthesith]

I had the express 5:50+ for a while. Other mesa amps I own/have owned: Mark V, Mark IV, Mark III, Rectoverb 50, Roadster

The expresses can do Mark-ish things, but I always found you got the most and best results out of the amp by -not- treating it like a "Mark lite". Circuit wise, as far as I know it is the same general lineage as the F series, and DC/Caliber series of amps that came before it.

As you noted, the clean channel is one of my favorite parts about these amps. Takes pedals very well too (never heard an SD-1 sound so good). I have not played a non plus version, but I would think that the GEQ would help with your tone concerns. I know that with the GEQ off or set flat I didn't much care for any of the tones

I never had any problem with the reverb, but I've been known to be less picky about that sort of thing in the past.

 

[b00g13mk2B]

I have and Express 5:25+ and a Mark IIA. Very different. The Express clean is very clean, the Drive channel is more Mark like- someone told me Dumble like but I have no experience!

GEQ is the good but I don't use it consistently. The crunch and blues channels are interesting as well. The only down side is if you want combos that are only selectable by front panel toggle. Not a real problem.

Just pick the power you need. The 25 W on clean could run out of volume/ headroom in a loud band if you don't mike. However, try that gain way up for a slight bit of grit and tonal change.

Didn't like the V30. I do like either a Cannabis Rex, Tone Tubby 40/40 or Winterland. I find the amp extremely bright. Just personal preference.

Reverb is good to me, I am not super critical about it.

 

[Gthewildman]

Interesting- I am newish to Mesa and have an old 5:25 Express. I like it a lot and wondered if I should upgrade to a new one.

But how much better can it be?

G

 

[Stinger22]

best results out of the amp by -not- treating it like a "Mark lite".

The "Express" certainly does not intimate a "lite" version it means like a fast moving express train and train name like "5:25" or 5:50.

 

[spawnofthesith]

The "Express" certainly does not intimate a "lite" version it means like a fast moving express train and train name like "5:25" or 5:50.

I know, but so many people want to compare everything Mesa makes tk either a Mark or a Mesa, and people see the GEQ and hope for a Mark on a budget. It’s a conversation I’ve had dozens of times on various forums. And I feel like you can coax some vaguely markish tones out of it, but it’s it’s own thing and works best when treated as such

 

[Stinger22]

I know, but so many people want to compare everything Mesa makes tk either a Mark or a Mesa, and people see the GEQ and hope for a Mark on a budget. It’s a conversation I’ve had dozens of times on various forums. And I feel like you can coax some vaguely markish tones out of it, but it’s it’s own thing and works best when treated as such

Mine replaced a DRRI and a Blues Jr. mostly. Never had a Mark or any other Mesa. The Express does everything I need from the wonderful clean through burning fusion. Never been a heavy metal guy. Even did a couple of captures I use in my Quad Cortex in the studio. As I said i don't think Mesa meant the "Express" name to mean anything less but that this thing burns like a fast moving train.

Mines a + with the GEQ but I actually prefer using the contour control. YMMV of course.

 

[diabolical]

I have the 50 watter + version. The clean channel is great, the dirty channel on Blues setting is great but gets kinda loose and wobbly on "burn" setting. It takes overdrive well and the burn channel starts sounding right, pretty close to Marshall sounds once you put an overdrive in front. No issues with the reverb, I find it beautiful, but dial in just a touch.
Overall - I mostly play the amp on the clean channel setting with pedals.
It did take me a while to roll bunch of preamp tubes until I found the right combination as the Mesa 12ax7 set that the amp came with was a bit loose and muddy sounding.

 

[spawnofthesith]

Mine replaced a DRRI and a Blues Jr. mostly. Never had a Mark or any other Mesa. The Express does everything I need from the wonderful clean through burning fusion. Never been a heavy metal guy. Even did a couple of captures I use in my Quad Cortex in the studio. As I said i don't think Mesa meant the "Express" name to mean anything less but that this thing burns like a fast moving train.

Mines a + with the GEQ but I actually prefer using the contour control. YMMV of course.

I certainly don’t have a bad thing to say about the Express, I really enjoyed mine (5:50+) I think it’s weakest area was modern metal tones but it still sounded good even when doing that (I bet I would’ve liked it even better for that had I tried it through a closed back cab ever)

Clean channel is to die for and there’s amazing tones in crunch and blues modes of course as well. Very versatile amp

 

[DrKev]

Thank you all for your thoughts. I really appreciate it. If there are any more, please keep them coming!

No issues with the reverb, I find it beautiful, but dial in just a touch.

Thanks for this, it seems to confirm that I have a fault somewhere to chase down? Dialing in "just a touch" is not possible, here because the lowest settings destroy the base tone of the amp. Thanks!

 

[diabolical]

I am not sure but I think one of the tubes controls reverb. Maybe try swapping that?

Forgot to mention that I have a Mesa Mini Rectifier and a Mark V, and out of all these the Express is my favorite, I guess more British voiced.
The dirty channel is not the best but I ran a overdrive/boost combo in front of it, amp essentially set as AC/DC tone and it is fantastic, it easily drove two 2x12s and has a huge tone.
This is how it sounds in a big venue:


TBH I wouldn't worry much about fixing the reverb, just grab a reverb box, I recently got a spring reverb by Earthworks for abotu $90 that has real springs in it, it's easier to control that on hte pedalboard imo.

 

[SteveB]

I own the Express 5:25 + and the 40-watt California Tweed. One thing I love about the Express is the variety of clean tones. There are great alt-clean voicings on the Crunch and Blues settings.

The California Tweed has great clean tones too, but they are warm. You might not like them based on your comments.

Both have excellent reverb. I almost never set it past 9-10 o'clock. Beyond that it sounds too strong to me.

 

[DrKev]

I am not sure but I think one of the tubes controls reverb. Maybe try swapping that?

TBH I wouldn't worry much about fixing the reverb, just grab a reverb box, I recently got a spring reverb by Earthworks for abotu $90 that has real springs in it, it's easier to control that on hte pedalboard imo.

No, it's not the tubes, and the tanks tests fine, the cable is fine, and I've replaced the switching transistors, I'm really deep diving the circuit now here but without another Express amp to test against I still have a nagging doubt that maybe it's actually working as designed!

I have an MXR M300 reverb pedal which is just fantastic and I'm running it in the front of the amp (as I use the clean channel 95% of the time). But I'd really like to have the onboard reverb running better for those those 5% of times I use the burn channel, and also I may sell the amp in the next few years (if I can ever get the hell out of France and go back to Ireland or the US).

 

[JiJoe]

I've had an Express 5 50 + for about 12 years. It's a great amp in my view - in fact - it's hard to beat.
The clean is fantastic and the other channels all have great sounds in them too. Although it takes a bit of learning in terms of dialling in.

I replaced the Black Widow speaker with an Eminence Maverick - allows me to dial down the efficiency of the speaker for lower volume.
That sounds a bit suspect - but the Maverik is a tremendous speaker - I liked it much more that the BW instantaneously.
I have a 10 band EQ in the loop which makes it exceptionally versatile. I have rolled tubes to tweak and arrived at a really nice set up.

I have gone through periodic machinations about replacing it with something more .............. something - but to honest - when it comes right down to it and you get to the nitty gritty - I seem to lose more than I gain when I really look at it.

Never had any problem at all with the reverb. Really surprised to hear that you're changing transistors on the board. I've never looked at a schematic - was an electronic engineer many moons ago - but would be really surprised if there was a problem there.

Have you tried the reverb in different rooms at all to see if there's some kind of sonic room effect. I notice major changes in response if the amp is hard against a wall at the back - but you get that with any open back. I noticed that you mentioned loosing bass with reverb turned up. I never really use reverb beyond about 10 o'clock - but I do find that I need to keep the bass much lower on the dial in order to access the good sounds in this amp. I am wondering if you've got a bass and reverb phase cancelation thing going on? I'll try that to see if I hear what you mean and let you know if mine is the same if that's helpful.

If there was one thing that I wish existed for it - it's a really comprehensive tutorial on how to dial it in. It's like a Mark - but not like a Mark. So the Mark 'how to dial in' content available is great - but it doesn't transfer ideally to the Express.

One thing I'll say in the passing folks - I had a little bit of interaction with the techs in the back office at Boogie Board on a different subject altogether.
This forum is run by a really, really top lad with a tremendous ethic about things - we're lucky to have this indeed.
Much resect and thanks.

 

[JustPassingThrough]

I had the non + 5:50 for about 2 months.

It's the flubbiest, loosest, roundest, mushy amp I've ever played through. It didn't do anything for me at all, even after a change of tubes and speaker. It was like permanently being on the neck pickup.

I understand these issues were remedied with the + version but id sold it long before I learned that, suffice to say it's the worst mesa amp I've played in the 6 that I've owned.

 

[DrKev]

Never had any problem at all with the reverb. Really surprised to hear that you're changing transistors on the board. I've never looked at a schematic - was an electronic engineer many moons ago - but would be really surprised if there was a problem there.

The J175s are prone to crapping out in Mesa's. They are often used for muting parts of the circuit, e.g. the reverb and contour, and for fast temporary muting when switching channels. The contour on my amps wasn't working when I got it initially and replacing the J175s solved the problem. As I was in there I did the two in the reverb at the same time but it did not solve the reverb issue.

Have you tried the reverb in different rooms at all to see if there's some kind of sonic room effect.

That's not the problem at all. But thank you.

 

[diabolical]

The J175s are prone to crapping out in Mesa's. They are often used for muting parts of the circuit, e.g. the reverb and contour, and for fast temporary muting when switching channels. The contour on my amps wasn't working when I got it initially and replacing the J175s solved the problem. As I was in there I did the two in the reverb at the same time but it did not solve the reverb issue.


That's not the problem at all. But thank you.

Question: was there something wrong with the reverb as it was before the component replacement?

Just take dial out the reverb, put an used Hall of Fame about $90, problem solved. TBH, I play mostly without reverb but have a touch of tape echo to my sound, seems to do the job well, but I plug in front of the 5:50, as I use it mainly on clean channel setting.

 

[DrKev]

Question: was there something wrong with the reverb as it was before the component replacement?

Yes. See first post.

Just take dial out the reverb, put an used Hall of Fame about $90.

HoF has the worst spring reverb sound of any pedal in its price range, IMHO. Starting with v3 of the toneprint app each subsequent update of theapps got worse and worse, by v4 it was sometimes unusable and then (in 2020) it refused to recognise my Alter Ego pedal (they force older pedals into obsolescence when a new version comes out) so I said to hell with those guys and bought and MXR M300 reverb and Strymon El Capistan and I've never looked back. But I'd like to have the on board reverb working for reasons I've already mentioned.

 

[ficelles]

I recently picked up a 5:25 and am really liking it. My other combo is a Nomad 45 and the reverb is much better in the Express. Cleans are great in both, but I find it easier to dial in overdrive on the Express. I am running with a Mesa extension cab, with Jensen Falcon drivers in both the 112 cab and the 110 combo. What the 5:25 really lacks is master volume, but I have an fx loop insert for that.