How do I get more bite out of my Roadster?

[ixoye777]

I have a Roadster head and Mesa cab w/4 vintage 30's. I play a good mix of blues, rock and metal. I am happy with channels 1 & 2. If that alone was all this head did I would be satisfied. BUT I really hate channels 3 & 4. I have had this amp for 9 months now and I still can't get a good heavy high gain tone. I don't know all the right jargon to describe how it sounds to me so I'll just use my own terms.

Channels 3 & 4 sound really loose, unfocused and have no bite to them. Mushy would be a good description. An example would be palm mutting, it sounds something like thub, thub, thub if that makes sense. I understand and accept that the Roadster is a dark amp I am just really frustrated at how loose the high gain channels are.

Here is what I have done to try to tighten it up:

Up front:
Maxon OD9 Pro+
TS 808 Clone

In the Loop:
Maxon 10 band EQ

While having a TS up front and the EQ in the loop does help it still does not sound like what I think $3000 worth of Mesa amp should.

I just changed out the stock preamp tubes with:
V1=Tung-Sol
V2=high gain JJ ECC83S
V3=Penta Labs
V4=Shuguang C8 unlabeled
V5=Sovtek LPS
V6=Still the stock Mesa

The new preamp tubes helped a BIT, but not much, sounds pretty close to how the stock ones do.

I have also ordered new rectifier tubes (JJ GZ34's) and some power tubes (Tung Sol EL34b's) but they have not yet arrived and both the power tube and rectifier tubes are still the stock Mesa's.

I have been seriously wondering if there is something wrong with my head. One of my other amps is an old Peavey Bandit 1x12 and it is thicker and heavier for metal then my Roadster.

I'll see how she plays once the full retube is done and I am hoping the EL34b's will tighten it up. Other then what I have done does anyone have any ideas? Thanks guys

 

[wildrat666]

Hi

Ive got a Roadster too and play only Metal on it. Ive got a very tight and nice tone that im satisfied with.

I just boost the roadster(chan3 or chan 4) with a Maxon od808(settings level max. tone 12 oclock, gain 0). I use emg85 pickups and getting a reallly thick and tight sound.

maybe the roadster is too loose for you. If you like the peavey bandit and think it delivering and thick metal tone so.......maybe you should buy or test another amp.peavey 5150 is a really nice amp.

for me...I just love the roadster !!!!!!

 

[KH Guitar Freak]

I don't understand why you would change the rectifier valves if you wanted a tighter tone. There's always the obvious silicon diode mode, not to mention the 100W and bold settings. Nevertheless, you might want to try the Mesa SPAX7 preamp in V1. Helps a little with a tighter tone. I sure hope you are using the traditional sized Rectifier cab or the Stiletto cab...

 

[jdurso]

Also you may want to try a Sylvania 12ax7 short plate in V1... awesome tube for V1 with a very clear, defined. With one of those ODs infront, the punch will knock you out :wink:

 

[ibanez4life SZ!]

Boost with a Maxon OD808, and don't be afraid to push the treble and presence higher than usual. It's naturally a dark amp, so if you want the kick required for metal, push the high frequencies.

I run 100W, Bold, Silicon Diode with a Maxon OD808 outfront....gain 0, tone at noon, and level at 1:00. Bass and mids are around noon, and the treble and presence are both around 3 o'clock. I have an EMG 85 @ 18V in the bridge of my guitars.

It's the best metal tone I've ever had

 

[pokerrules47]

I don't get these adjectives, tight, loose, more bite, etc... Record your amp, properly and post it up so we can hear it. Also post something (or at least link us to) an audio sample of something that achieves the sound you are after.

Typically, most people that have this complaint, are the ones that practice in their bedrooms, then when their friends come over, they yank the output to show them how good it sounds loud, then spend a few minutes explaining how it's the amps fault it sounds so shitty etc.

If you want your guitar to sound thick (i.e. occupy all of the frequencies in the mix) you should add a few things.

1) Bass
2) Drums
3) Other guitar

Man, no offense but if you think a peavey bandit has better tone than a roadster, there is either something seriously wrong with your amp, or, you need to sell all of your equipment now and donate the money to charity. Seriously, turn the bandit up to volume good enough to jam with a band and see how great she sounds then!! If you are playing at bedroom levels, the roadster isn't for you. Get a line6 spyder valve amp, and enjoy it. Spend the money you saved on hookers and beer. It's much more fun than bragging.

Is this your first tube amp? What volumes are you playing at? Why did you choose that particular tube combination? Have you ever played another amp (not a peavey bandit) that provides the sound you are after? Why did you buy the roadster?

If you bought your amp because the roadking is the best mesa and you didn't want to drop quite that much coin so you bought the roadster so you could still have bragging rights, you bought the wrong amp.

Based on the information you have already given, I would NOT suggest a peavey 5150/6505. Your taste in music is too diverse for that amp. It's a great amp, and you can achieve a lot of different sounds out of it, however you have to dial each one in.

I would suggest you re-evaluate what you expect from an amp. If you are expecting the sounds you hear off cd's etc... you need to look into how those guitars are recorded. Start investing money now, in about 5 or 10 years, you'll have a studio that can make it sound like that.

 

[ixoye777]

Thanks for the replies and advice so far guys.

To answer some of your questions pokerrules47:

"Typically, most people that have this complaint, are the ones that practice in their bedrooms, then when their friends come over, they yank the output to show them how good it sounds loud, then spend a few minutes explaining how it's the amps fault it sounds so sh!t etc."

This is not the case with me. I have a house and the freedom to play nice and loud. I find the sweet spot on my Roadster to be with the main output around noon and the master volume anywhere after 11.

"Man, no offense but if you think a peavey bandit has better tone than a roadster, there is either something seriously wrong with your amp, or, you need to sell all of your equipment now and donate the money to charity. Seriously, turn the bandit up to volume good enough to jam with a band and see how great she sounds then!! If you are playing at bedroom levels, the roadster isn't for you. Get a line6 spyder valve amp, and enjoy it. Spend the money you saved on hookers and beer. It's much more fun than bragging."

Overall the Roadster is a much nicer sounding amp. I just used my Bandit as an example as it pertains to low end bite and palm mutting. I'll post up some sound clips to show the difference.

"Is this your first tube amp? What volumes are you playing at? Why did you choose that particular tube combination? Have you ever played another amp (not a peavey bandit) that provides the sound you are after? Why did you buy the roadster?"

This is my second tube amp. My first one was the Marshall JVM 410c. As far as volume goes it depends, I play at both bedroom and gigging volumes. For practicing I play at bedroom volumes and I am not hitting the sweet spot, but that is not my complaint. I chose the tube combination because a number of people have recommended dougstubes so I emailed him and told him what I was looking for and he recommended the preamp tubes I bought. As far as playing other amps that are closer to the metal sound I am after my brother has the 5150 and a friend has an older DR and they both slaughter my Roadster for high gain stuff (neither of them use any effects other then an EQ & delay).

"If you bought your amp because the roadking is the best mesa and you didn't want to drop quite that much coin so you bought the roadster so you could still have bragging rights, you bought the wrong amp."

No, not at all. I bought the Roadster because of the versatility.

"I would suggest you re-evaluate what you expect from an amp. If you are expecting the sounds you hear off cd's etc... you need to look into how those guitars are recorded. Start investing money now, in about 5 or 10 years, you'll have a studio that can make it sound like that."

That is a very good point. I do find myself getting caught up in that mentality from time to time in chasing down a tone from a CD. A bands live sound and their CD sound are two different animals.

I appreciate the questions and advice pokerrules47. The only way I have to record is with my BOSS Micro BR but I'll snag a clip from both my Roadster and the Bandit to show the difference. Once the new EL34b's get here they may get me closer to what I am looking for. If not I'll likely go snag a 5150 for the high gain stuff and use the Roadster for channels 1 & 2.

 

[pokerrules47]

Don't try and sound like a recorded artist. You'll go insane. Find your own sound that approximates the genre you enjoy. Remember, in the studio, they are double/triple tracking their guitars with a lot of post processing to clean the sounds up.

 

[Bobby_E]

Here's what I do, and I get a pretty good metal sound out of my Roadster. (Note: I don't use a OD pedals, because I don't like the "artificial" sound of an OD pedal.

- Guitar: Charvel USA's with SD JB's and 59's
- I DO use a BBE Sonic Maximizer though and set both knobs at noon
- Channel 4, Modern setting, 100 watts, silicon diode, bold
- Master at about 10 o'clock
- Output at about 11 o'clock
- Presence at about 10
- Bass at about 10
- Mids at about noon
- Treble 1 - 2
- Gain 1 -2

I have no problems with a thick, yet articulate and thrashy sound. Maybe it'll work for you? I think the Peavey 5150/6505 is a noise machine and has too much hiss/buzz/feedback and too much gain in my opinion, and doesn't get a percussive low end like the Roadster does, so take that for what it's worth too.

 

[Melodyman]

Here is what I have done to try to tighten it up:

Up front:
Maxon OD9 Pro+
TS 808 Clone

In the Loop:
Maxon 10 band EQ

While having a TS up front and the EQ in the loop does help it still does not sound like what I think $3000 worth of Mesa amp should.

If adding a boost pedal and eq in the loop still isn't doing it for you, it's a lost cause imo. I would cut your losses and sell the amp, there are lots of options on the market to choose from.

The Roadster just isn't the right fit for your needs.

 

[Laskyman]

I had a Roadster and loved channels 1 and 2 to death, I also liked the rhythm tones on 3 and 4, but when it came time to solo- the dirty channels were just not happening- at least for my tastes. I also boosted the front with a Maxon and went 10 band in the loop- definately better, but not what I was hearing in my head. Rectos are loose. At the end of the day, maybe that amp isn't the amp for you- and thats "OK". I moved into a Stiletto, and the experience opened my eyes as to why people have more than 1 amp. Mesa has plenty of other nice flavors- and a Mark or Stiletto are much tighter. I recommend giving one of the a demo- and if it is more of what you are looking for- your Roadster is a quick turn.
My $.02

 

[ixoye777]

Excellent advice so far guys, I appreciate it.

A couple months back Nitrobattery recommended I try the Tung Sol EL34b's. They came in yesterday and I immediatly popped them in. THANK YOU NITROBATTERY! For my tastes the Roadster needs EL34's. They brightened up and tightened up the whole amp. I've always found Marshalls to be too bright and the Roadster was too dark and loose - untill the El34b's. I still have a formidable bottom end but now there are some nice mids and highs to play with. Every Roadster owner should have a quad of these in his arsenal.

 

[KH Guitar Freak]

Well, it woul depend on what tone you are after, not to mention how it would sound with other amps/bands in the mix...

 

[Jaredface]

The 5150's/6505+ are great amps for what you want/need.

 

[MetalMatt]

The 5150's/6505+ are great amps for what you want/need.

Mark III's eat those amps ALIVE... IMO.

Sorry that the Roadster isn't what you thought it would be... bummer. What cab are you using? and what are your EQ settings on the Roadster and 10 band EQ?

 

[Melodyman]

The 5150's/6505+ are great amps for what you want/need.

I agree, have a 6505+ and it's a great amp with alot of bite imo. Cheap and deadly, proven track record and great bang for the buck. Pairs up real well with my Roadster, a great complimentary amp to it.

 

[Robusto]

you can also try bypassing your effects loop.

that made a huge difference for me.

I have also just recently picked up an od808, and it certainly sounds great when I engage that. VERY nice chunk!

 

[ixoye777]

You guys have given me a lot of good advice - I appreciate it

After doing a complete retube with the EL34b's and swapping out the rectifier tubes for the JJ GZ34's it has made a world of difference. It is still not quite the tone I have in my head but I am miles closer to what I am looking for then how she sounded with all stock tubes. I am happy with what I have now.

I also have a Crate head that sounds awesome for high gain stuff I play through my Mesa cab. It is a one trick pony though and the cleans and overdrive are aweful.

I was also wondering if I am able to link my Crate and Mesa heads together. Can I put the Crate head (high gain channel) into the Mesa head (on a clean channel) and use the Crate head as a sort of distortion pedal? If so what is the best way to do it - would I run the Crate in front of the Mesa, then the Mesa into the cab?