Help with cutting through a band mix

[guitarrhinoceros]

I couldn't disagree more about the suggestion to turn up the presence. I always found that would make my Dual Rec sound too thin and 'not present' in the overall mix. I prefer to keep my presence around noon whenever I use a Rectifier on the road.

So you're disagreeing with my recommendation to turn up the presence yet suggest a value that's higher than the OP has his listed at?

I sense (maybe wrongfully) hostility in your text response. Unfortunately, I am disagreeing with your recommendation so I suppose the hostility will be present by default. For what it's worth, whenever I've rented a Dual Rec on the road, I've found the amp in general doesn't quite cut the way I want it to. Thus, I don't think the OP can really do much more than he already has to try to alleviate his problem. He's used V-30s, tried an EQ pedal, and seems to have tried doing a lot with the amp's on-board EQ, etc. I just don't agree that turning up the presence knob will yield him favorable results at gigging volumes, based on what he's written and what I know of the Dual Rectifier.

Do I love Rectifiers though? You betcha! It just depends on the application.

Sorry for any misunderstandings.

 

[guitarrhinoceros]

Get EL34´s or better KT77´s to for that Marshallish grindy midrange...In preamp dont´t use JJ tubes they are just too dark and try that Tung sol/Sino mix...Also cab is most important part in your tone...Just don´t use oversized cabs...Marshall 1960AV or any smaller cab with V30´s will do job well...Get Bare Knuckle Painkiller,Miracle Man or even C Pig for fuller thicker sound...

of course, EL34s do a great job in the recto power amp! i´m running my roadster with EH EL34s since about 3 or 4 years now, and i´m really happy with it.
they increase the midrange, reduce that fizzy top-end and make the lows sound a bit more rounded - i like EL34s in recto-series amps.

Yup. IME, EL34s give the Dual Rectifier an immediately more lively feel and smoother gain structure, minus some of the stronger low end that the 6L6s naturally possess.

The difference is definitely something that is noticeable, at least from a players perspective.

 

[carpediem666]

Thanks for all the posts guys. I have band practice tonight so I will try a couple of methods. Higher mids silicon diodes. Only thing I can't change is the tubes lol. But I will look into getting some EL34's and trying those.

Also I have taken my eq pedal out as I didn't like the sound it was doing to the amp. I was getting a taint on the recto's sound so I'm going to see if I can just use the recto eq to sort out my problem.

 

[joe web]

Thanks for all the posts guys. I have band practice tonight so I will try a couple of methods. Higher mids silicon diodes. Only thing I can't change is the tubes lol. But I will look into getting some EL34's and trying those.

Also I have taken my eq pedal out as I didn't like the sound it was doing to the amp. I was getting a taint on the recto's sound so I'm going to see if I can just use the recto eq to sort out my problem.

good luck and give us a quick update on the results.

 

[carpediem666]

hey guys

here is a video from one of my bands first gigs, i am playing at the back of the stage behind the singer, its not the best quality but can you give me an idea if im getting lost in the band mix? or wether its ok?

Thanks.

http://youtu.be/byX7qKnHVSk

 

[Heritage Softail]

It sounds good an chunky thru the song. It looks like 90% of the time both guitars are playing the same chord progression. Not sure how to differentiate one guitar from the other, at least on a cam corder :lol:

Good band!

The singer is good. But tell her she needs to loose weight so she doesn't turn into a diva... The band name already reflects a chic in it :lol:

 

[domct203]

Try turning the treble down.

The way the Recto's EQ works is that the signal is run in series from the treble, to the mids, then to the bass... and the higher you run each control the less signal is passed to the next in the series. So as you increase the treble you decrease the mids and bass, and vice versa. Sometimes when you want more mids it's actually more effective to turn down the treble than it is to turn up the midrange knob.

Additionally, don't be afraid of the presence knob. It operates in the upper midrange area and increasing it will add a lot of punch and immediacy to your sound, which can help you cut a bit better in a mix.

+1

This is spot on, and exactly how the EQ interacts. Try lower settings of the treble and compensate with more mids & presence.

Also try backing off the gain a bit as mentioned. As you increase the gain you increase the clipping (compression) of the gain stages resulting in a percieved loss of upper-mid/treble cut. Lower the gain and raise the master.

Dom

 

[Blaklynx]

Thanks for all the posts guys. I have band practice tonight so I will try a couple of methods. Higher mids silicon diodes. Only thing I can't change is the tubes lol. But I will look into getting some EL34's and trying those.

Also I have taken my eq pedal out as I didn't like the sound it was doing to the amp. I was getting a taint on the recto's sound so I'm going to see if I can just use the recto eq to sort out my problem.

From many reports I've read the Boss GE-7 isn't a great EQ pedal; tone suck and noisy. The MXR 10 band is an excellent pedal... I own it. It's quiet and I notice no tone loss when disengaged.

Heard the video.... the second song, (clean parts??) the top end of your guitar doesn't seem to stand out. You strumming all strings? Sounds weak and no clarity. Maybe it's the recording. I can hear the chugging when you hit the dirt channel.

 

[Blaklynx]

Try turning the treble down.

The way the Recto's EQ works is that the signal is run in series from the treble, to the mids, then to the bass... and the higher you run each control the less signal is passed to the next in the series. So as you increase the treble you decrease the mids and bass, and vice versa. Sometimes when you want more mids it's actually more effective to turn down the treble than it is to turn up the midrange knob.

Additionally, don't be afraid of the presence knob. It operates in the upper midrange area and increasing it will add a lot of punch and immediacy to your sound, which can help you cut a bit better in a mix.

+1

This is spot on, and exactly how the EQ interacts. Try lower settings of the treble and compensate with more mids & presence.

Also try backing off the gain a bit as mentioned. As you increase the gain you increase the clipping (compression) of the gain stages resulting in a percieved loss of upper-mid/treble cut. Lower the gain and raise the master.

Dom

+2

I'd back the presence down and boost the top end with an EQ pedal in the loop. I did this with the MXR 10 band at 8 and 16kHz. I know, I know.... the guitars frequency range and so on..... however on Carvin's Quad-X preamp the Hi (treble) is centred around 10kHz from memory.

 

[markblasco]

Try boosting the 3k and 6k sliders a bit. If your issue is that your amp doesn't cut, those might be your best bet. If you add in another 2-3dB around there, you might get the cut you want without extra volume.

Also, try turning your bass down even more (or don't boost it with your pedal). A good guitar sound in a mix will sometimes sound a little light in the bass when played alone. Those bass frequencies make your guitar sound louder, but don't do anything to help it cut in the mix. As long as you have a bass player, and especially if you have another guitar or a keyboard, cutting the bass more than you might initially like will let you turn up the volume a little bit without it overpowering.

 

[carpediem666]

Ok so i had band practice last nite.

I was using channel 3 on my recto for rhythm and i had it switched over to silicon diodes. I really cranked the mids high about 3 o clock and it helped push my sound through the mix some more also i had the presence at about 11 o clock which was good.

I really like the sound I had but i still was having trouble with getting past the other instruments however my vocalist is pansy and doesnt like the guitars up to loud so i wasnt really running the amp hot. the output control didnt get past 3 o clock and the master volumes on channel 3 was at 10 o clock.

So would this make my amp cut through or does the recto need to be louder to really get up to a good sound using bass, mids, treble??

also i have a question.

is it better to run the output control up high and then adjust the overall volume of the amp through the channel master volumes? or do it the otherway round setup the master volumes so the levels are similar between the channels and then adjust the overall volume of the amp using the output control?

btw I am using the effects loop for my chorus and reverb?

Thanks.

 

[markblasco]

I've always heard it's better to have your individual channels all set fairly high and even with each other, and then use the master output to turn things down. I don't have a larger recto, though, so I couldn't say (although I do basically the same thing with a mini recto by having the channel volumes almost all the way up, and using a volume box in the loop).

You might also try something completely different as a starting point next time by turning the mids all the way up, and turning the rest of the tone controls all the way down. From there you can start tweaking as needed, but I kind of like that sound sometimes. I wouldn't do this for the clean sounds, but for the crunchy stuff you might be surprised how it sounds. Not super bright, but you also don't get the same fizz.

 

[screamingdaisy]

is it better to run the output control up high and then adjust the overall volume of the amp through the channel master volumes? or do it the otherway round setup the master volumes so the levels are similar between the channels and then adjust the overall volume of the amp using the output control?

btw I am using the effects loop for my chorus and reverb?

Thanks.

Typically, it's best to run the loudest channel (usually the modern channel) with the channel volume around 10:00, then balance the other channels around that channel. Adjust the final volume using the master output.

I really like the sound I had but i still was having trouble with getting past the other instruments however my vocalist is pansy and doesnt like the guitars up to loud so i wasnt really running the amp hot. the output control didnt get past 3 o clock and the master volumes on channel 3 was at 10 o clock.

Is 3 o clock a typo? Because the amp should already be producing full volume by the time hit hits 3:00. I usually get my best results with the amp in between 11:00 and 1:00 on the master output.

If its not a typo, when was the last time you changed your power tubes?

 

[Kingpin]

Hi mate

You mention you are using 2x12, do you have this on the floor? I gigged with my Roadster combo for the first time last week and noticed a marked difference from using a head and 4x12.

Tried raising the rig up?

Cheers

Keith