Help! Triple Rectifier and a G-System (how to)

[Kobber]

Hi!

I just bought a Triple Rectifier Solo Head and a TC Electronic G-System.

How do I connect my G-System so it can change channels on my Rectifier? I looked at TC Electronic's website (support) for help, but either it sucked or I suck, I just don't get it. I'm also having problems with low output and little or none effect. If some of you out there are owners of a G-System and a Rectifier, could you please send me details on how to connect these two in the best possible way?

Thanx in advance!

 

[ibanez4life SZ!]

I'm not 100% on this, but for such a nice processor, you might want to consider modding your loop to series to get the most out of the processor.

 

[Kobber]

I'm not 100% on this, but for such a nice processor, you might want to consider modding your loop to series to get the most out of the processor.

Could you be more specific, I'm a bit old-school so I some non-technical words ;-)

 

[ibanez4life SZ!]

In a parallel loop, only a portion of your signal is sent to the acutal loop...then you mix the wet signal (signal with effects) and dry signal (untouched signal) to your liking.

With a series loop, your entire signal goes through the loop...with such a good processor, that is what most would prefer to do to get to most out of it.

 

[deafeye.productions]

In a parallel loop, only a portion of your signal is sent to the acutal loop...then you mix the wet signal (signal with effects) and dry signal (untouched signal) to your liking.

With a series loop, your entire signal goes through the loop...with such a good processor, that is what most would prefer to do to get to most out of it.

Everything you have said is true except for the fact that a series loop does not make you get the best out of your processor. With a series loop, you will then have to set a wet/dry mix with your processor, as opposed to your amp.


Example: A boss DD3 delay has a fixed wet/dry mix; that is because the signal is in the chain in a series loop before entering the amp. (as a standard connection, guitar through the input, and out the output to the amp)


If this wet dry mix was not existent, and the signal was set to 100% wet, you wouldn't hear the original note. Only the delay note and the subsequent delays. If you had the delay set to 1 second. You would play a note, not hear it through the amp, one second later hear it through the amp. In fact, most amps with a reverb knob are wired in parallel. All the "reverb" does is increase the wet/dry mix. Increasing the perception of reverb. I guess it is set up like this so you won't have to think about the signal flow. They just give you one option: More reverb. As opposed to how loud will the original signal enter the processor, then how much more of this original signal do I want to blend with the processed signal. Jesus lord. You can't think of all that in a live situation. If they give you a send level, you would probably crank it up, clipping the processor, and then you think the reverb on your amp sucks. Now of course, MESA trusts its buyers...


A series loop does not benefit you in any way just in the sense that now your processor has to accommodate for the wet/dry mix, instead of your amp.

This is the way effect mixing is done in a recording. All dynamic processing, EQ, Compression, de-essing, etc. is done in a series loop. Or an insert, which is the proper name. All time based processing, delay, reverb, flanging, etc. is done through a parallel loop, or auxiliary parallel tracks in a mixing board. This is pretty much every snare sound you ever heard where you hear the snare, and then the reverb. The wet track was, of course, cranked in the 80's. And almost gone in the 90's.


Now... you can bend the rules and use time based in an insert and dynamic processing in parallel. But not until you understand why, and how, doing this will affect the audio. For example, NY compression on drums is done by sending a copy of the drums into 2 channels of a board, and compressing the hell out of them. The result, tighter, sounding drums. A more perceived attack, yet no loss of dynamics because the 2 tracks are blended together to taste.



I hope that wasn't much to cover for my first post. If that didn't make any sense, ignore me.


Now, as far as the original post!

For a quick connection guide on the G system, please go here:
Quick Connection Guide

The channel switching is done in the Mesa by shorting the tip of the 1/4" to the sleeve. I have actually been trying to contact MESA to get the exact specs on the channel switching schematics myself. No luck though, always get the product specialists answering machine, and I don't like leaving messages.

However, if you read the online manual on the G system, on page 48 and 49 you find how to set up the channel switching relays and several relevant examples. You have to do this using the menus of course.

I assume the schematics on channel switching are somewhere on the TC electronic site, but I have no idea where. I don't own this system myself, but I might consider buying it by the way.


The G system has four relays, which means that you should be able to use 2 TRS cables out from the jacks into four TS cables, allowing you to access all the channel switching functions of a Triple rec.

This would definitely fall short for a road king...


After you figure out which relays do what on each channel on the TR, Im pretty sure you can program the G system for switching these channels through a pre-specified MIDI sequence you can sync up to the song you are playing, the light show, and the video playback on the stage. So let me know what arena you're playing at.

...And you will probably spend more time figuring this stuff out than playing guitar.


But if I were you, I would just use the BigFoot for channel switching as it requires no tweaking, and use the G system for what TC electronics does best. Time Based effects.





Cheers!

 

[GazPots]

Now, as far as the original post!

For a quick connection guide on the G system, please go here:
Quick Connection Guide

The channel switching is done in the Mesa by shorting the tip of the 1/4" to the sleeve. I have actually been trying to contact MESA to get the exact specs on the channel switching schematics myself. No luck though, always get the product specialists answering machine, and I don't like leaving messages.

However, if you read the online manual on the G system, on page 48 and 49 you find how to set up the channel switching relays and several relevant examples. You have to do this using the menus of course.

I assume the schematics on channel switching are somewhere on the TC electronic site, but I have no idea where. I don't own this system myself, but I might consider buying it by the way.


The G system has four relays, which means that you should be able to use 2 TRS cables out from the jacks into four TS cables, allowing you to access all the channel switching functions of a Triple rec.

This would definitely fall short for a road king...


After you figure out which relays do what on each channel on the TR, Im pretty sure you can program the G system for switching these channels through a pre-specified MIDI sequence you can sync up to the song you are playing, the light show, and the video playback on the stage. So let me know what arena you're playing at.

...And you will probably spend more time figuring this stuff out than playing guitar.


But if I were you, I would just use the BigFoot for channel switching as it requires no tweaking, and use the G system for what TC electronics does best. Time Based effects.





Cheers!

Im looking to get a G Force for my roadking and am looking how i can hook it up to control all the channels. Would combining say a G Force anda FCB1010 work (im sure i read somewhere on here that you can control 4 with those two together)?

Any help you can give me would be excellent.

Cheers. (sorry for the hijack)

Gaz

 

[Elpelotero]

The Gsystem was created specifically so you don't need a series loop.

This is because it allows you to do the 4cable method wherein you place the necessary efx in front of the amp (wah, distortions) and the necessary efx in the parallel loop (reverb, delay, etc).

You need to look at the manual or Email TC support. I have emailed them in the past and they are extremely helpful and quick to reply.

At a basic level, you will need to get a setup like this:

guitar>>gsystem>>preamp>>gsystem>>poweramp>>speakers

Then it's just a matter of learning the buttons on the units. The gsystem will even allow you to switch the channels on the amp.

 

[deafeye.productions]

Im looking to get a G Force for my roadking and am looking how i can hook it up to control all the channels. Would combining say a G Force anda FCB1010 work (im sure i read somewhere on here that you can control 4 with those two together)?

Any help you can give me would be excellent.

Cheers. (sorry for the hijack)

Gaz

To answer your question, the GForce, like any good piece of gear, has MIDI in/out/thru in the back. Which is easy to program using the Behringer FCB1010. All you have to do is assign the MIDI program change numbers to the pedals, expression, etc.

So the GForce cannot be actually used to switch anything since its a rack mount. It actually needs a MIDI footswitch. Hence the FCB1010.

Anywhooo... as far as connecting the GForce and the FCB...

You need at least 2 MIDI cables to take advantage of every function in both units, but essentially you just need the "OUT" of the Behringer into the "IN" of the GForce. The FCB1010 also receives SysEx dumps, which means you can store all your presets on the GForce inside the Behringer. Recall any special settings, programs, banks, patches, you name it. Every function available from the editing menus, any filters, active EQ's, bla bla bla can be saved via SysEx dumps. To do SysEx dumps, you need the "OUT" of the GForce, into the "IN" of the Behringer. By the way, SysEx stands for "system exclusive."


The "thru" port is for daisy chaining. The MIDI rule is 3 devices in the chain. Any more than that and good luck if it works. Latency becomes a problem.


Daisy chaining goes like this: Device ID, MIDI channel. That's it. With a MIDI through box you can have 3 devices per "out" port. So if you have an 8 channel box, you can have up to 24 devices communicating with each other. Then you can daisy chain MIDI boxes, assign ID's to those and multiply everything by 16. It's ridiculous how many devices you can control with one master. Everything in MIDI goes by 16. 16 outs max per MIDI box, times the 3 devices you can have in every "OUT" and well I guess you can then have 16 MIDI boxes. Lets see, 16 X 3 = 48. 48 X 16= 768 If you have the need to connect that many units, you're insane.

Oh and of course you need audio inputs for each. Cuz remeber, the fist rule about MIDI: MIDI is NOT audio.

Ok so back to channel switching...


Well see the problem with the G system is that it only has four relays. For any amp in the world, that's more than enough. Of course MESA is crazy.

If you want to use it for the road king, you can actually use it for channel switching, since you have 4 relays, and 4 channels. Here's the problem, there is more external switching you need. Which means your FX loop and your SOLO function is not accessible, lets not even go on the second FX loop! haha... that's insane! Even on the triple rec, you have to give something up. Either the FX loop, which is kinda necessary with the G System, and the SOLO function which I myself just can't give up. You would then have to assign a switch in the G system for bypass or mute, to compensate for the lack of FX loop switching. Which MESA put on their pedals so you won't have to do this very thing. But we love to keep going in circles don't we?!? lol.


Technically, you can use any 3rd party pedal that does amp switching to control the amps. Since there is soooo many functions to be controlled on MESA amps, especially the Road King, you kinda loose out by using external switching. But now you have 2 giant pedals to control a very simple thing, you have half your controls on one pedal, and the other half on the other pedal.


To be honest with you, external channel switching is just a ***** unless you have a good reason to have it. AKA, you're Mark Tremonti and you have a guy in the back switching it for you. (and setting everything up too...) Haha, my friend worked in TransCon studios with him, and actually had to do this! lol. He uses a Triple Rec, a Bogner Uberschall and a Bad Cat for distortion blend. A JCM1000 and some other crap for clean tones.


Here's the thing abut channel switching, its just like light switches. You just have to tell your pedal what your amp thinks its "on" and what your amp thinks its "off." It's different for every amp and pedal, so I can't even begin to tell you which are the relays you need to set. Even if I did it with the G system and a Road King I wouldn't be able to tell you because I would do it just like every other engineer out there.

I'd try all the relays until I find the ones that work. Besides, I get paid by the hour.


But you are right, the FCB1010 would be great to GForce. After all, MIDI is MIDI. It's like the language all modern pieces of gear speak. So with your GForce, you don't have to use f-in DigiTech, notone pedals. Btw, if you use Digitech with your MESA, you should be crucified.


Get some nice Lexicon MX500, TC electronic DTwo, a GForce of course an Empirical Labs Distressor, (analog compressor) and you have a guitar rig from hell. You can control all their functions with the FCB1010. Except for the Distressor, duh. Oh, and even... you have 4 heads? 4 cabs? You can wire the reverb in QUAD. How fun would THAT be! lol. I haven't seen that done. I should try it.


I highly recommend, really, honestly, just using the MESA BigFoot for channel switching unless you need to sync up the amp to a MIDI sequence. (or have a guitar tech) Then you won't have to do anything, just play.


Oh and when you do that, there is no room for error. So watch the beer consumption before your show.





Cheers,
~Ben~

 

[GazPots]

Thanks for such an informative post.


It seems im a bit screwed since i have lead duties in my band and use a fair few effects at the same time. Kinda need most of the triggers.

Are there other units out there with more relays that i could use?

At most id need 4 channels, fx and a solo boost.



I could perhaps set up one channel for solo and set the channel master to suit a solo volume and then only require 4 channels + 1 fx loop.

Thats still 1 too many.

Help!




Edit - would the likes of THIS work?

I definatly need to bone up on my midi, its just baffling at the moment. :lol:

Gaz