help recording that thick recto sound

[barneyc4]

I just bought a Shure SM 57 and a Apogee DUET+ MacBook Pro.

I need help getting that BIG think recto sound in the mixing process.
(think Alter Bridge - Tremonti, Adam Jones, Tool)

what are you guys doing to your tracks? how are you panning them? are you applying compression? duplicating?

maybe you can also give me some tips on getting a good clean sound too.

 

[Anonymous]

hey barney,

honestly, you must be a soundengineer from hell to reproduce with a low level dynamic mic and some sequencer software what has been recorded in a million dollar studio ... just to mention one of the production processes.

have a look here:

http://www.tweakheadz.com/guide.htm

enjoy!

 

[bsd56]

The best way ive found to get a really fat sound is to throw up a couple mics in some good spots and multi track. I usually only need two takes (making 4 tracks at 2 a piece) and it sounds pretty bitchin

 

[nathan28]

Hey Barney, listen to my clip.

http://www.netmusicians.org/index.php?section=user&value=nathaneboggess%40gmail.com

------------------------

Nice and thick. Its recorded with a Cad Trion 7000 ribbon mic and a Cad D189 dynamic.

I played it twice. Panned one to the left and the other to the right. If your phase is correct it will sound great. I put no eq on the clip. Its raw.

 

[LEVEL4]

I have an SM57 stuck against the grillecloth, and a $199 Audio-Technica AT3035 large-diaphragm condensor mic, about two feet from the cab, both going into a PreSonus dual micpre. Just add a second, 20Hz-20kHz, mic, and the amp sounds literally twice as big. When I select between either single mic, and BOTH mics, it sounds way bigger in comparison.

And since I have more than one amp, I'll dual-mic the Recto, and lay one rhythm track, panned left, then dual-mic my Mark IV for a second rhythm track recording, and pan that rhythm track, right (or vice-versa). For leads, I have the luxury of a third amp, a Mesa/Boogie DC-3, that I'll also dual-mic. Next, I think I'm gonna give that $279 Cad Trion 7000 ribbon mic a shot that nathan28 uses.

 

[kmanick]

that sounds great , what are your settings and what was your mic placement etc.
I tried this tonight with my Rectoverb head (2 tracks ) I got a lot of fizz.
I'm having a real hard time recording this amp.
http://www.netmusicians.org/index.php?section=id&value=1533

Hey Barney, listen to my clip.

http://www.netmusicians.org/index.php?section=user&value=nathaneboggess%40gmail.com

------------------------

Nice and thick. Its recorded with a Cad Trion 7000 ribbon mic and a Cad D189 dynamic.

I played it twice. Panned one to the left and the other to the right. If your phase is correct it will sound great. I put no eq on the clip. Its raw.

[

 

[Aramism]

the biggest tones comes from the least complicated setups it's about the player and the right engineering.

you need to give the amp some juice and it needs to be a decent room. one sm 57 should do fine. the more mics you experiment with the more the chances of phasing which if you don't notice right away will pop up in a mix once compression and limiting are applied.

you should work on getting a giant guitar tone with ONE mic rather then you could start using more once you feel more comfortable.


the key is amp settings, playing style, and double/quad tracking.

nothing sounds good off the bat. raw guitar tracks are not supposed to sound good. it's about the whole mix.

 

[nathan28]

Turn your amp up loud. By listening to your clip you might have a little too much gain, too much gain causes fizz. That is why you double or triple track. A less distored guitar sounds cleaner and when you double track it gives it that big sound. If that doesnt help, mic the cab with your sm57 about an inch to the right from the center of the cone, that will get rid of those fizzy highs as well. BUt here is my amp settings and maybe it will help as well:

channel modern
gain: 1-2 oclock
treble: noon-1
bass: 1
mid: 1o oclock
presence: 11 oclock
-------------------------
using more than one type of mic helped as well. that clip has two different mics.

 

[kmanick]

Well I had an eye opening experience today.
I've been trying to nail these specific Recto tones and haven't been able to.
I've been hearing this 'boxy" dry tone that I couldn't EQ no matter what.
:roll: I pulled the KT-77's I had in there and put in a fresh set of JJ 6L6's
and wouldn't you know it, the boxy sound is gone and suddenly I'm hearing that elusive tone I've been chasing.
It's nice that I can use all these different tubes in my Rectoverb, the
EL-34's/KT-77's really make going after more "vintage-ish" tones like Satch,Vinnie Moore, Dokken any of the "80's-ish" tones a little easier, but when trying to reproduce, the Petrucci/Loomis type of tone I was chasing, it was just "off" somehow.
I can't believe how much "bigger" the amp sounds with 6L6's in there as well.
I can't wait to get back down there and record some fresh takes.

 

[ytse_jam]

Hey Barney, listen to my clip.

http://www.netmusicians.org/index.php?section=user&value=nathaneboggess%40gmail.com

------------------------

Nice and thick. Its recorded with a Cad Trion 7000 ribbon mic and a Cad D189 dynamic.

I played it twice. Panned one to the left and the other to the right. If your phase is correct it will sound great. I put no eq on the clip. Its raw.

Are you keeping the same mic in the same position for the two tracks? I think you shouldn't have phase issues doing that way, am I wrong?

 

[MusicManJP6]

Well I had an eye opening experience today.
I've been trying to nail these specific Recto tones and haven't been able to.
I've been hearing this 'boxy" dry tone that I couldn't EQ no matter what.
:roll: I pulled the KT-77's I had in there and put in a fresh set of JJ 6L6's
and wouldn't you know it, the boxy sound is gone and suddenly I'm hearing that elusive tone I've been chasing.
It's nice that I can use all these different tubes in my Rectoverb, the
EL-34's/KT-77's really make going after more "vintage-ish" tones like Satch,Vinnie Moore, Dokken any of the "80's-ish" tones a littel easier, but when trying to reproduce, the Petrucci/Loomis type of tone I was chasing, it was just "off" somehow.
I can't believe how much "bigger" the amp sounds with 6L6's in there as well.
I can't to get back doown there and record some fresh takes.

You and I are alot alike it seems! I pulled the KT-77's out of my combo and went back to the 6L6's for the same reason. There was this boxy F-series type feel/tone with the KT-77's. Great tone for certain purposes, but I much prefer the fuller, larger 6L6 experience. Post more clips when you get them down! Glad you found the tone you were looking for...

 

[nathan28]

Are you keeping the same mic in the same position for the two tracks? I think you shouldn't have phase issues doing that way, am I wrong?

I've got the trion 7000 on one boogie 4x12, and i put the d189 on my other 4x12. I adjusted the trion to where it sounded good, then i turned up the d189 and played, i move only the d189 until i get the phase right. I recorded both mics at the same time for both takes, but i panned the trion to the left, and then the d189 to the right. And thats it. The key to using more than one mic is definitely phase. Sometimes i even blend a little, like i will pan one mic to the right, then i will pan another mic to the left. Then i will throw in another mic dead center, but keep the volume low on it, and sometimes it makes it sound fuller. Man i have experimented alot, and i have recorded some horrible sounding things and some great things. Just experiment. thats the best way.
CAUTION:: when using more than one mic the most important thing is phase. It can be your worst enemy, when wrong it can make your guitar sound thin, when right sound fat!!

 

[ytse_jam]

Are you keeping the same mic in the same position for the two tracks? I think you shouldn't have phase issues doing that way, am I wrong?

I've got the trion 7000 on one boogie 4x12, and i put the d189 on my other 4x12. I adjusted the trion to where it sounded good, then i turned up the d189 and played, i move only the d189 until i get the phase right. I recorded both mics at the same time for both takes, but i panned the trion to the left, and then the d189 to the right. And thats it. The key to using more than one mic is definitely phase. Sometimes i even blend a little, like i will pan one mic to the right, then i will pan another mic to the left. Then i will throw in another mic dead center, but keep the volume low on it, and sometimes it makes it sound fuller. Man i have experimented alot, and i have recorded some horrible sounding things and some great things. Just experiment. thats the best way.
CAUTION:: when using more than one mic the most important thing is phase. It can be your worst enemy, when wrong it can make your guitar sound thin, when right sound fat!!

now it's clear, thanks!