Help me pick the right Mesa for me

[Koreth]

Warning: N00b rambling ahead.
Greetings everyone. I've been lurking here off and on for a while now. As covered in this thread, I did follow the advice given and picked up a better axe than the Wa-Mart special I started playing with (which I've since sold). I've been fooling around with my Peavey VK112 combo, and the clean channel is great, but I'm starting to feel like something is lacking in the lead channel. It could just very well be my imagination, playing, the amp's tubes, speaker, my guitars pickups or any combination thereof, but I'm thinking its time to start looking at a Mesa. Even if I don't pick one up for another 6 months or a year because of having to save up, I'd like to start collecting data and opinions on Mesa's various products now, so I can pick up the right amp for me the first time, hopefully.

Thus far, the only Mesa I've played which I know I liked was that Single Rectoverb 1x12 combo with an additional 1x12 open back cab (pretty sure it had a C90 in it). The red channel had a delicious aggressiveness to it. However, I've also been considering the tones of some of my heroes (Hetfield's chugging rythyms on Lightning and Puppets, Petrucci's singing leads, etc.) and realize that these tones didn't come from Rectos but Mark series amps. I've not had an opportunity to play a Mark series, I've not been able to locate a used one I could demo, but to be fair, I haven't been looking for one, either. So I'm wondering, should I be looking at a Recto or a Mark?

Now, I'm not an actively gigging musician, nor do I have any plans to do so in the near future. That could change, but who the hell wants to listen to a computer tech play Metallica covers? If anything, I'd be looking to jam with my buddies and maybe record some stuff as well. The latter there makes consider racks vs heads, which is a whole other can of worms.

Now I realize you guys probably get lots of "which amp for me?" threads and I've been trying to read up on the various products Mesa offers, but the more I read, the more options I find and less sure I am of which ones I should consider. Can some of you guys who know your amps better than I do help me out here?

 

[siggy14]

As by what you describe I would defintly say a Mark IV should be the amp you are looking for. However if i remember right both master and ride the lightning used a marshall amp, i dont think they switched till justice for all to mesa's, or maybe it was on masters, not 100% sure.

DT is another story as he has switched between Rec's and Mark's his whole career, before road kings he had a rack mount rec he would use occasionly.

But from your decription, i would say the Mark IV is your amp.

Warning: N00b rambling ahead.
Greetings everyone. I've been lurking here off and on for a while now. As covered in this thread, I did follow the advice given and picked up a better axe than the Wa-Mart special I started playing with (which I've since sold). I've been fooling around with my Peavey VK112 combo, and the clean channel is great, but I'm starting to feel like something is lacking in the lead channel. It could just very well be my imagination, playing, the amp's tubes, speaker, my guitars pickups or any combination thereof, but I'm thinking its time to start looking at a Mesa. Even if I don't pick one up for another 6 months or a year because of having to save up, I'd like to start collecting data and opinions on Mesa's various products now, so I can pick up the right amp for me the first time, hopefully.

Thus far, the only Mesa I've played which I know I liked was that Single Rectoverb 1x12 combo with an additional 1x12 open back cab (pretty sure it had a C90 in it). The red channel had a delicious aggressiveness to it. However, I've also been considering the tones of some of my heroes (Hetfield's chugging rythyms on Lightning and Puppets, Petrucci's singing leads, etc.) and realize that these tones didn't come from Rectos but Mark series amps. I've not had an opportunity to play a Mark series, I've not been able to locate a used one I could demo, but to be fair, I haven't been looking for one, either. So I'm wondering, should I be looking at a Recto or a Mark?

Now, I'm not an actively gigging musician, nor do I have any plans to do so in the near future. That could change, but who the hell wants to listen to a computer tech play Metallica covers? If anything, I'd be looking to jam with my buddies and maybe record some stuff as well. The latter there makes consider racks vs heads, which is a whole other can of worms.

Now I realize you guys probably get lots of "which amp for me?" threads and I've been trying to read up on the various products Mesa offers, but the more I read, the more options I find and less sure I am of which ones I should consider. Can some of you guys who know your amps better than I do help me out here?

 

[Platypus]

I would say the Mark IV combo is probably a good choice for you. It won't be ridiculously loud if you're not gigging but it's loud enough that you could gig with it in the future. It has a silent recording feature if you choose to record with it and you can also mic the single speaker and blend the two for a better tone.

Ride the Lightning is modded Marshall but Master is a Mark IIC+ into a Marshall poweramp so you can definitely get that Metallica style tone with the Mark IV... maybe not as 'on' but who wants to copy anyway? To me, the signature Petrucci sound comes from a Mark series amp so that's also a no-brainer.

It's a fantastic instrument, you won't be disappointed. Take note though that you should read the owners manual 3 or 4 times before you start really digging into the settings. There are a TON of options on the amp which seems daunting at first but it becomes more logical the more you understand how they interact. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that you shouldn't get frustrated; it takes some solid learning to understand how to make the tones you want. Once you do though.. you'll be grinning ear to ear.

 

[bpm91]

Take this into consideration: If you are impatient, which most of us are, keep a real wide-open eye out for a Mark III on CL. People blow them out between $600 - 900. If you're ever so lucky you'll snag one for $450 like I did.

Mark III's are amazing and you won't be disappointed. And at their pricepoint, its hard to argue against. Just be prepared to not be able to use R2 so much unless you get a volume and/or gain mod...

I would say consider a Mark IV if you want pure versatility with a little less aggressiveness than the III. You should spend no more $1200.

 

[mrd]

I'll add my vote to the MarkIV column. I bought one almost a year ago and I'm still amazed every day when I turn it on how **** good it sounds. Metallica/Pantera style riffage is a no-brainer with this amp, they go hand-in-hand.

I agree with Platypus though. The MarkIV, and indeed any high-end tube amp, does have a bit of a learning curve, especially if it's your first major tube amp. I'll echo his statement: read the manual. Read it again. Then read it three more times. Keep it in the bathroom for reading. One great thing about Randall from Mesa is that he writes EXCELLENT user manuals. He describes in an over-the-top (in a good way) manner what every single knob, switch and button does on this amp, then he goes off and writes a 5 page article on how tubes work just for the hell of it. He gives you pointers on what and what not to do if you're looking for a specific tone, how to adjust your controls if you're playing really quiet or really loud, etc, etc. Just read the darn thing.

Also, don't get discouraged if you can't find your sound right away. It will take you a while to understand this thing. When I first got it I was actually a little bit let down cuz it sounded kinda thin and lifeless, but once I figured out what the hell I was doing, I couldn't be happier.

 

[Koreth]

Okay, so we have recommendations for the Mark IV. I'll start asking around town to see if I can't find one to demo and see if that's the tone for me.

Now, I read about the Triaxis, and as I understand it is all the tones of the Mark series in one cool little programmable, midi controllable, 2U box. Since I'm likely to start recording stuff than I am to start giging at this point, I'm wondering if a rackmount setup wouldn't be a better idea. Now I realize that the Triaxis won't sound exactly like a Mark IV, because it isn't a Mark IV, but how close does it come? Or is a rackmount setup more likely to be more costly for what I want to do? Am I asking these questions in the wrong section of the forums?

 

[wilerty]

No matter what amp you buy now, you will understand much better what direction you are going after you've owned it for a little while. At that time there is over a 90% chance you will want something else. For that reason alone, buy something used now, so you can recover your money.

 

[backwordsman13]

No matter what amp you buy now, you will understand much better what direction you are going after you've owned it for a little while. At that time there is over a 90% chance you will want something else. For that reason alone, buy something used now, so you can recover your money.

+1

I couldn't agree more, it took me a while to get a kickin tone from my dual rec, but the fx loop sucked (for me) and I just sold it today and am going to pick up a Mark IV tomorrow. It's just so much more musical than a DR to me even theough they both are awesome in their own ways.

 

[srf399]

Buy used if you can and get a fleet of them! LOL They all excel in different areas.

 

[scottkahn]

Ignore the Triaxis for your purpose. It's great (I owned two of them) -- covers up through the Mark III tones very well, not as much the Mark IV. But it won't help you for recording. What they describe as recording outs are really useless direct outs that sounded good over 10 years ago when the Triaxis was born, but by today's standards they are not modern cabinet simulated outputs.

The Mark IV amp is probably going to be good for you, but as one poster said, Petrucci only uses Mark series amps now and then. He used them on some older DT albums, then the Triaxis for one album (Falling into Infinity, I think), then at Train of Thought switched to the Dual Rectifier Road King. He recently switched back to the Mark IV. He also has a Lone Star for cleans.

You can read about his gear changes in our last interview with him at this link:
http://www.musicplayers.com/features/guitars/2007/0607_John_Petrucci.php.

What this tells you is that either with a Mark series or a Dual Recto, you can get some sweet DT tones, and some Metalica tones, and much more. If you got a Roadster 1x12 combo, you'd have an even wider range of tones to choose from.

Scott

 

[Koreth]

Okay. So either a Recto or a Mark IV.

Now, I know that of the various Rectos I've played, the only one that did it for me was that Single Rect-o-Verb that someone else bought. It had that delicious aggressiveness that was just...awesome. I've played the orange and red channels on a new Dual Rec, Triple Rec, Roadster and Road King, and I've not felt that same...perhaps 'mojo' is the word to use here? To be fair I've demoed all but the Rect-o-Verb at Guitar Center, where everyone else is turned up loud too, and things are just generally noisy. Am I doing something incorrectly in dialing in the amps? There are a LOT of knobs on the Road King, after all. Or is there perhaps something wrong with demo methodology?

When demoing, I plug in, set everything to 12 (except master volume, cause anything past 9:00 gets me dirty looks from store staff and other customers) and start playing various riffs I know (or occasionally improvising when I think nobody can hear me or cares), while listening to how the amp sounds, occasionally tweaking knobs to see what kind of changes they cause. I've been trying to take a "Lets see what this sounds like, and see if I like it or can find something I like with some knob tweaking." approach. I've also had a bit of an "I'll know its the right amp for me when I all but fall in love with the tone," attitude, which is exactly what happened with that Rect-o-Verb.

Is there something special about the Rect-o-verb along the lines of the deal with the pre-500 Rectos that would merit me trying to find another Rect-o-Verb? Is it perhaps the same thing with the early Rect-o-Verbs vs newer ones, cause now that I think about it, there was a used Single Rect-o-Verb at Guitar Center that I demoed briefly, but the magic just wasn't there.

 

[scottkahn]

You may have only adjusted HALF of the controls on some amps, especially the Roadster, where you START creating your tone by adjusting settings on the rear of the amp. Select 2x6L6 or 4x6L6 (50w vs. 100w), and tube vs. ss rectification, etc. On a Road King, you can also choose between options with EL-34 tubes, too, and different selections of speaker cabinets. THEN you go to the front of the amp.

Depending on how things are set on the rear of a Boogie, you may hear better/worse things during an in-store demo.

 

[jamme61]

Okay. So either a Recto or a Mark IV.

Now, I know that of the various Rectos I've played, the only one that did it for me was that Single Rect-o-Verb that someone else bought. It had that delicious aggressiveness that was just...awesome. I've played the orange and red channels on a new Dual Rec, Triple Rec, Roadster and Road King, and I've not felt that same...perhaps 'mojo' is the word to use here? To be fair I've demoed all but the Rect-o-Verb at Guitar Center, where everyone else is turned up loud too, and things are just generally noisy. Am I doing something incorrectly in dialing in the amps? There are a LOT of knobs on the Road King, after all. Or is there perhaps something wrong with demo methodology?

When demoing, I plug in, set everything to 12 (except master volume, cause anything past 9:00 gets me dirty looks from store staff and other customers) and start playing various riffs I know (or occasionally improvising when I think nobody can hear me or cares), while listening to how the amp sounds, occasionally tweaking knobs to see what kind of changes they cause. I've been trying to take a "Lets see what this sounds like, and see if I like it or can find something I like with some knob tweaking." approach. I've also had a bit of an "I'll know its the right amp for me when I all but fall in love with the tone," attitude, which is exactly what happened with that Rect-o-Verb.

Is there something special about the Rect-o-verb along the lines of the deal with the pre-500 Rectos that would merit me trying to find another Rect-o-Verb? Is it perhaps the same thing with the early Rect-o-Verbs vs newer ones, cause now that I think about it, there was a used Single Rect-o-Verb at Guitar Center that I demoed briefly, but the magic just wasn't there.

Just like a guitar, amps will be different, if you play one at the store and like it, buy that one, don't buy the new one in the box(unless you try it) I played a million stilettos untill I plugged into one at GC and it was it, all the tone I ever wanted. There's even more things in a amp then a guitar that make the magic and you need to make sure you don't get a dud IMHO.

 

[alex1fly]

Are you sure you want a Mesa if you don't play gigs? They need lots of volume to sound their best, and you'll likely be disappointed any time you play it at lower volumes. When I play my Roadster at home and I get it to Good Tone volume, I can be heard for blocks, which makes me not want to play it so I don't piss off the neighborhood. At band practices I can't even turn it up enough to let it sing. If you're jamming with buddies and recording, and music is more of a hobby, you may be better off with a modeller, nicer solid state, or a smaller tube amp like a Fender Blues Junior and a distortion pedal. Just get something that sounds good at low-medium volumes, because that's really all you need. You can get rocking high gain tones without a Mesa, especially one in the 1000-2000 dollar range, because if you don't gig you'll be wasting your money. And if you get one of the more powerful Mesas and you gig in small venues you'll still be wasting your money, because those things are just not for casual musicians. Even once you start gigging, you need to re-diagnose the kind of amp you need, because the amp/tone situation completely changes once you have a live mix - it's more about the audience being able to hear you than you hearing your ideal tone when you plug in.

Heresy, I know, but I really think you're about to blow a ton of money on a Mesa because you THINK you need one, or because you want "the real deal," not because you actually need one. You've been playing off and on for a few years, and you want a good amp - that is completely understandable. However it is beyond me that people are suggesting you buy a Recto or Mark IV, which are professional/touring/large-medium gig/recording amps. Even a cranked 30 watt tube amp is too loud for most real life applications. Seriously, look into modelling amps, they don't sound exactly like tube amps (duh) but they can sound ****, **** good once you dial them in. Plus you can get monster Mesa like tone at a decent volume, which is invaluable for just plugging in and playing. You won't want to play very often if you have to turn it up to gigging level for it to sound good! Plus, only serious tone heads will be able to tell that you aren't playing on "the real deal," but you'll be able to laugh at them because your 300 dollar modelling amp sounds just as good as their 3000 dollar rig - and you don't even have to spend time dialing it in, just save your presets and go! You can concentrate more on your playing, your mastering of the guitar, and less on your EQ/gain/master/effects/output/pedal levels and tubes and all the gear necessary for tweaking a tube amp. A guitar amp is a tool, and you must pick the right tool for your needs - contrary to the Mesa enthusiasm on this board, I strongly believe that a Mesa is not for you. Mesa tone yes, and you can get very satisfying Mesa like tone from modellers (no flames please), jam with your buddies, record stuff, play at home, mic it for ANY size of gig (depending on the PA), and if you find later that you need massive volume for gigs THEN look into powerful tube amps. Only the pickiest of ears can really tell the difference between nicer solid-state amps and tube amps, and even then the main tonal differences only come into play when you overdrive the amp. I hope you take this advice from someone who has spent lots of money on gear and hates seeing people blow money on gear they don't need when tonal satisfaction can be had for much cheaper and at much lower volumes than a Recto or Mark IV can provide. You want an amp that you can use on your own, record with, jam with your friends, and possibly use at gigs. You probably want an amp that can give you a variety of tones, but in addition to that you want an amp that can give you tone at a variety of volume levels - something that a Mesa amp will not give you. If you find that you need one later then you can always sell your medium-level amp, but there is no sense in jumping from a Walmart guitar amp straight to a high end tube amp. I read your other thread, and my suggestions are for your particular situation, not just "you should get this amp because I think it sounds good and you would too." It is absolutely invaluable as a guitarist, especially one still in the early learning stages, to be able to simply plug in and play. Trust me, if you take my advice it will be one of the best decisions you make in your gear acquisition.

Lots of people in your other thread suggested you get a modeller. Modellers are an amazing deal for the price. You get so much versatility from them. Fender cleans, Marshall crunch, Mesa roars, and everything in between at all volume levels. They don't sound exactly like the amps they model but they sound more tube-like than regular solid-state amps; plus do you want a particular sound or do you want to create your own good sounds and get better at guitar? It sounds too good to be true, especially when you're considering buying a world-class hand-built tube amp, but modellers are really amazing. Vox has a newer Valvetronix model, which has more modern tones. Line 6's Spider III has a great Mesa model that sounds very convincing - I have the 30 watt version and it sounds great at home and with my band, especially since I can set the volume to whatever level I want and get great tone rather than having to turn it up loud enough to shake the walls. It even has a built in "overdrive" function, so there's no need to run a pedal in front of it. Line 6's Flextone III is also a good modelling amp, it has 20 some amp models and 20 some cab models, and you pick both the amp and cab - so for Mesa tones for example, you have two different Mesa heads and one Mesa cab, plus all the other cabs so you can really fine tune your tone as much as anyone else.

Your heart isn't set on a Mesa, your heart is set on getting good tone. Get a 300-400 dollar Line 6 or Vox modeller (30-50 watts is all you need), spend some of your leftover cash on a nice Duncan or Dimarzio bridge pickup and you'll be set - then you can even spend the next 400 bucks you've saved on another guitar if you want. Even an Express with the 5 watt option and a Hot Plate will be much more than what you need. Attenuators can only bring the volume down a few decibels before they start sounding bad. There's no need to "stick with tubes" if you haven't been playing long or gigging regularly. Re-read this post, as well as the pro-modelling amp posts on your other thread, and I think you'll see the wisdom.

 

[Elpelotero]

check out the Express if volume is a concern for you. i think it can go down to 5watts.

 

[eventide_awakening]

I'll second the modelers comment. I've used the podxt since it came out and it best fits your situation. If you have no intentions of gigging now, or in the near future, then I'd strongly suggest you stick with modelers. The pod works great for your simple recording needs and for bedroom/practice situations. It'd work even better if you ran it through the power section of your valveking. I haven't done that with my roadster (cause I haven't touched the pod since I got my mesa) but I've read several threads on here where others have done that with great success.

If you absolutely have to have a mesa (can't fault you for wanting one), then I'd go with the express or keep looking for a used mesa...never know what you might find. Just depends on how much you want to spend.

 

[clutch71]

Are you sure you want a Mesa if you don't play gigs? They need lots of volume to sound their best, and you'll likely be disappointed any time you play it at lower volumes.....

JESUS PETE, I thought I was wordy He's right though. I've spent the last year chasing a tone and it turns out what started my Mesa quest is where i'll end it, a 50w Single Rectifer or Rectoverb. In January of 07 I picked up a Rectoverb Series 1 combo for a great price. I then sold it under the prestense that I wanted a 2ch DR because of Tube Rectification, Bold/Spongy, the ability to run EL34's, and Channel assignable loop. These things are great but tube rectificatioin to me was only evident cranked. I never liked the spongy setting. I did swap EL-34's and never went back to 6L6's. The channel assignable loop? Well let's just say I don't like parallel loops.

I spent from June through late November trying to tame the thing. Mostly by pulling tubes and adding an OD. Then over beers with Elpelotero and many PM's with MusicManJMP1 I revealed my plan to start looking for a Roadster as I was tired of pulling tubes, was only using two modes, and wanted better cleans. I thought the Roadster was going to be it. Nope, after two hours at my local Mesa dealer, even at 50w it did not have the same charachter I remember from my Rectoverb at lower volumes.

One thing I learned in all of this...I don't like combos. Go with a head and cab. I much rather move two 50 lbs pieces than one 70 to 100lbs beheamouth. Unless of course you go with a modeler. The 150w Spider III (SS sounds "good" regardless of wattage) weighs next to nothing, even in a 2x12 combo. They are cheaply made though. I've had two break test driving them.

 

[alex1fly]

Yeah I know it was wordy, but I feel passionately about people wasting money since I've wasted a ton of my own on gear this past couple of years :/

Its just about figuring out what you need. I wanted an upgrade from a Fender Hot Rod, and I was gigging regularly, and while I should've like an F-30 all the Mesaness went to my head and I ended up with a Roadster head, 2x12 cab, attenuator, tubes, boost pedal, eq pedals, and pickups to try and match with the head's tonality, and finally my little Line 6 amp - guess which amp I use most now, even with my band? I'm going to end up selling my Mesa, because even though I play with a band the Roadster is just too loud no matter what I do, which way I angle it, what tubes I try or how I balance the levels, it just doesn't sound good unless its cranked to a professional concert volume level. I tried everything short of an iso cab - attenuator, spongy, 50 watt, Yellowjackets, and its only a few decibels difference. Plus if you want to record with a Mesa and crank it, you'd better have nice mics that can handle immense amounts of input - straight in from the preamp just doesn't sound as good. So if a guy that has played for a long time, gigs regularly with a hard rock band and has made demo recordings can't utilize a Mesa because its too much amp, then a guy that has played off and on for a few years and just wants a better tone than his starter amp can give will be in way over his head with a Mesa. A modeller will make you infinitely more happy Koreth, especially one of the ones that has lots of models, like the newer Vox Valvetronix, the Spider IIIs above 30 watts, or the Flextone IIIs with the 20 cabs and 20 heads to mix and match. You'll learn a lot more about what different GOOD tones are supposed to sound like, which is much better for guitarists in general, but especially for aspiring ones, and you can concentrate more on making those tones yours than tweaking the amp. Modellers are beautiful because they let you just play, and sound **** good doing it, and that's what you need.

 

[themisfit138]

Are you sure you want a Mesa if you don't play gigs? They need lots of volume to sound their best, and you'll likely be disappointed any time you play it at lower volumes.....

I think the mark IV sounds good at low volumes and it only gets better as the volume increases.

 

[trem]

Are you sure you want a Mesa if you don't play gigs? They need lots of volume to sound their best, and you'll likely be disappointed any time you play it at lower volumes.....

I think the mark IV sounds good at low volumes and it only gets better as the volume increases.

+99999999999