Help me choose…..

[Janglin_Jack]

I have used and owned many Mesas over
The years. I have an opportunity to take my pick of three amps. Probably not a bad choice among them but one I have no experience with. I play classic rock, rock and blues. I generally use a single channel vintage Fender and use pedals for all flavors of gain etc. I have a shot to get a small Mark IV head, a Lonestar Special 1x12 combo or 1x12 Express 5:25. I have no experience with the Special but I have owned the other 2. Thoughts on these amp choices? My buddy is not local and will ship me the amp so no chance of try before I buy. Like I said, two of them I know what I am getting but intrigued with the Special.

Thanks in advance
Mike

 

[rarebitusa]

Just one man's opinion... have a LSS (my main live amp) V:90, IIC+ and a Stiletto. Got a buddy who has a IV, get to play that whenever the opportunity presents itself To my ears the IV has a similar "Mark" feel as the IIC+ / V. The gain structure of the Marks are very different then the LSS. They not only have much more gain on tap, but have more bite on the upper end especially on the lead chans. The LSS in comparison is very smooth and fat. Definitely less gain but takes pedals really well and the cleans are lush and deep.

If you're experience is the Fender and using pedals for different shades of gain the LSS maybe the more familiar choice, but it's inherently bassy. Running a GEQ in the loop to slightly trim 80Hz takes the blanket off. The LSS el84s also factor in vs the 6L6s of the Express and IV.

Tough choice between those 3, they are all great amps, just different in many ways.

 

[Janglin_Jack]

Rarebitusa, that is what I was hoping to hear about the LSS. Mark IV are a little stiff for me liking, (SS rectified and lots of filtering). In the amps I build, I almost always have a GZ34 rectifier, (the only exception is a JCM800 I built). Everything you just stated about what you like with the LSS has me ready to pull the trigger. I will hope to see some other comments, but this was great feedback.

Years ago, I had a Lonestar with the 6L6, so I am familiar with the controls. The only reason I sold it was due to the weight. Our rehersal space was up stairs and we used to gig at the one place with a super narrow staircase. I think they list it at 80lbs, but I think it was heavier with the casters, etc.

Thanks again rarebitusa!!

 

[electric mayhem]

Didn't know the LSS was EL84 not having owned one. From what I know even if not first hand I'd have to agree with LSS cleans and pedal platform. I thought the 5:50 was great and extremely versatile. The 5:50 is 6L6's so the 5:25 has to be different but if they hit a home run on the 5:50 the 5:25 is probably great too.

It sounds like you already talked yourself out of the Mark IV which I would have chose for the 6L6 style roar and the remnants of the Mark III sound/feel (especially the green stripe) with way more features.

All that said for rock and blues if you ever get a chance to pick up a short head Maverick I would do it. It's like a lunchbox. A couple stacks with different options including some open back or ported and drivers of choice. Mine would be MC-90, blue's or gold's in a 3/4 back, and redbacks, V90's and creambacks in closed.

 

[Janglin_Jack]

Good suggestion on the Maverick, (I have never seen one in person). If I come across one, I will be eager to try it. Years ago I got a Tremoverb and it was smashed in shipping. I was hoping to keep it and fix the cabinets, or buy new ones, but I had to take it as is, but the seller didn't want to shell out any cash. So the shipping insurance kicked in and I had to surrender the amp to get my money back. That was a great sounding amp but heavy as hell.

 

[rarebitusa]

Another data point FWIW.

In my current band the other guitarist, a longtime Vox fan, picked up a Maverick 1x12 combo w/ MC-90. He always dug the LSS but had shied away from Mesa in general as they were too "complicated" from a user perspective. Helping him dial it in I got quite a bit of play time with it.

Never understood why that amp was associated with "Dual Rectifier" model line. In many ways it is very similar to the LSS, 2 chans, el84s, SS/Rect option. The overall amp voicing is a bit different then the LSS, not as bassy, perhaps a bit more gain on tap. Cleans are very nice. IMHO it's a excellent choice for blues, rock, jazz, surprisingly versatile. It's be one to seriously consider also.

 

[Janglin_Jack]

The amp deal is underway. I hope to meet up with my friend who will be in town Friday and I will be trading him some gear in exchange for the LSS. I hope to have it Friday!!!

 

[rarebitusa]

The amp deal is underway. I hope to meet up with my friend who will be in town Friday and I will be trading him some gear in exchange for the LSS. I hope to have it Friday!!!

Sweet... hope it works out. Look forward to your initial thoughts.

 

[Janglin_Jack]

Well, it sounds great. Super easy to dial in, (just went with my friends settings and dialed back the gain a touch. I haven't tried all the modes, (it was on the 30w setting on both channels with warm reverb). This one has the MC-90 in it. It is a nice sounding speaker, it sounded real even...almost tame/polite. I think I would like a little more character in the mids. I am going to test out a couple of cabinets (one with a Eminence Cannabis Rex, another with a G12-65 and another with a V30). I might try with my 2x12 with Greenbacks. I am hearing some good things about the Creamback G12H and G12M. What speaker is in yours rarebitusa?

 

[rarebitusa]

Well, it sounds great. Super easy to dial in, (just went with my friends settings and dialed back the gain a touch. I haven't tried all the modes, (it was on the 30w setting on both channels with warm reverb). This one has the MC-90 in it. It is a nice sounding speaker, it sounded real even...almost tame/polite. I think I would like a little more character in the mids. I am going to test out a couple of cabinets (one with a Eminence Cannabis Rex, another with a G12-65 and another with a V30). I might try with my 2x12 with Greenbacks. I am hearing some good things about the Creamback G12H and G12M. What speaker is in yours rarebitusa?

Oh cool, glad to hear.

Speakers.. oh a good rabbit hole for sure. Totally agree with your description of the MC-90, it's a nice fit with the LSS. IMHO the G12-65 is very similar sounding to it, maybe with a bit more overall character. Live it was a bit of a struggle cutting thru the mix with the MC-90 or the G12-65. Typically not a huge v30 fan and in isolation preferred the MC-90 or G12-65, but the v30 live was the answer for cutting thru with the LSS. Currently it's either a Recto 2x12 cab with a Mesa v30 + Scumback M75 or for smaller venues a Mesa v30 1x12.

Would be interested in your take on the Rex or the Greenbacks with the LSS

 

[Janglin_Jack]

Funny enough....I was a bedroom player for a long time. I had done a few jams and a "band" with co-workers at the time. At that time I was using my amp from when I was a kid a 1965 Gibson GA-20RVT (two el84). I decided to get a new amp as we had a punk rock drummer and he was loud as hell. I bought a brand new Mesa DC-3. Fast forward years later I formed a new band that would end up gigging every weekend for years. My new amp at that time was a Lonestar Classic. I had the volume way up and I COULD NOT HEAR MYSELF PLAYING. Totally disappeared in the mix. That is when I learned that the voice of guitar is midrange and has a very specific place in the band mix. Currently my go to is the CRex, I have it in all my Fender amp builds and I have been using it in my Express 5:25. With Marshalls I love the Greenbacks - I have done the Heritage ones, but the Standard 25w ones cut better. I have a Scumback M75 in my JTM45 1x12 combo (mini Bluesbreaker style). I read that Matchless uses the Creamback G12H75, but to my ears I like the mids on the G1265M Creamback. I want to just buy that. That MC90 is very pleasant and really no complaints - but I think it can use some pleasant mids a la Greenback style. Will let you know how some of those other speakers sound, (I will likely experiment with a Creamback).

What do you do with the speaker out. I noticed my buddy was using the 4ohm out into the 1x12 8ohm speaker. I will experiment with the 8ohm tap, but it sounds like most might use the 4ohm into 8ohm mismatch.

 

[rarebitusa]

Good to get those details. Oh cool you have a Scumback M75... it's a fav for me. I had it initially in a 1x12 cab and it was really good. Been thinking about getting a J75 for a new 2x12 cab project to go along with the G12-65.

I actually do use the 4 ohm out into the 8 ohm cab if I want a slightly darker tone, just depends on the mood and the amp. The Stiletto is fairly bright so I do that mismatch with it typically.

 

[Janglin_Jack]

I haven't had a ton of time to demo the speakers. I did try the G1265, the V30 and the Cannabis Rex. They all sounded good and each had their strengths. At this moment I think the stock MC90 is the keeper in that amp. I need to narrow down the best one for cleans and then separately for gain sounds. I wish I had a Creamback just for comparison purposes, but unless my next test reveals something different, I think the MC90 is staying put. Much better speaker than I remember. I want to put my M75 Scumback into the mix just to test.

 

[rarebitusa]

I will say you motivated me to get the MC90 back onto the LSS and play around with that setup. It is a really balanced speaker for that amp. I'm digging it.

 

[Wyzard]

I'm using Celestion Black Shadows on most things at the moment, so I guess the MC-90 gets my vote.

I use both of the ones I have for the Coli IIB, or split them into one each for the IIA and/or MkIV. I run them with Two Rocks as well.

Meanwhile my EVs, Creamback 75, Fane Crescendo etc are all sitting around, hardly getting used.

 

[Janglin_Jack]

Glad to see others are hearing the same thing. I was fully expecting to need to change this speaker out. I know part of the reason was my memory of the Ememince Black Shadow (50w?) that was in the Studio .22. I am going to give a G1265 one last chance, but with 97db efficiency I am not sure that is helping a 30w amp for live volume levels. MC-90 is still in there. Thanks for all the feedback.

 

[rarebitusa]

Glad to see others are hearing the same thing. I was fully expecting to need to change this speaker out. I know part of the reason was my memory of the Ememince Black Shadow (50w?) that was in the Studio .22. I am going to give a G1265 one last chance, but with 97db efficiency I am not sure that is helping a 30w amp for live volume levels. MC-90 is still in there. Thanks for all the feedback.

If I had to bet... and don't like to when it comes to speakers and tone you're probably on the right track with the efficiency attribute. Really liked the G12-65 and still do, but yea it just didn't cut thru live. The MC-90 is currently in the Stiletto closed back combo cab, the chassis was moved to a headshell, so the combo gets used now as a standalone cab. I have yet to try that out live with the LSS, but probably should.