Ground hum

[Martin]

Does anyhow here have ground loop hum issues with their racks ?....I currently am using a MKIII and a little Peavey 50W tube amp combo as the second half of the stereo set up. For effects I have a TC G-Force, a Triaxis and a Tube pac compressor which are all switched in when needed through a GCX.

I have it configured so the Triaxis only goes through the effects return part of the combo's...anyhow, one of the things I am dealing with right now is eliminating hum.

I have cut my power cords down to the exact length, I have isolated each unit from the rack using hum-free's and I have an Ebtech Hum eliminator in the signal path and a HumX plugged into the MKIII.... I also have a furman power conditioner....My issue is that I still get ground hum, anyone else have this issue with their racks and if so how did you defeat it.

 

[Martin]

Problem solved, thanks for all the help :lol: :lol:

 

[sted]

what was the issue mate? Do share!!

 

[zachman]

Does anyhow here have ground loop hum issues with their racks ?....I currently am using a MKIII and a little Peavey 50W tube amp combo as the second half of the stereo set up. For effects I have a TC G-Force, a Triaxis and a Tube pac compressor which are all switched in when needed through a GCX.

I have it configured so the Triaxis only goes through the effects return part of the combo's...anyhow, one of the things I am dealing with right now is eliminating hum.

I have cut my power cords down to the exact length, I have isolated each unit from the rack using hum-free's and I have an Ebtech Hum eliminator in the signal path and a HumX plugged into the MKIII.... I also have a furman power conditioner....My issue is that I still get ground hum, anyone else have this issue with their racks and if so how did you defeat it.

Here you are: PLEASE watch these videos and you'll be glad you did

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YM1iwC6vhg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCfa-I4SfiM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrgupGEXKNs&feature=related

 

[hazbin]

I have a question. If i use a Furman power conditioner that has a ground, is it ok to lift the grounds on all the other amps and rack unit plugged into the Furman?

 

[ando]

I have a question. If i use a Furman power conditioner that has a ground, is it ok to lift the grounds on all the other amps and rack unit plugged into the Furman?

NO!! The ground is there to protect you and your equipment. If you lift all your grounds, there is no protection anywhere. In fact, any device you lift the ground on is at risk.

 

[Anonymous]

Post removed.

 

[ando]

I come from a country where the wall outlets are grounded. :lol: So all this "lift ground", ground A and B etc. confuse me. Am I safe?

No. As soon as you lift the ground on anything, you are putting something at risk.

 

[hazbin]

I have a question. If i use a Furman power conditioner that has a ground, is it ok to lift the grounds on all the other amps and rack unit plugged into the Furman?

NO!! The ground is there to protect you and your equipment. If you lift all your grounds, there is no protection anywhere. In fact, any device you lift the ground on is at risk.

But the Furman would still be grounded

 

[ando]

I have a question. If i use a Furman power conditioner that has a ground, is it ok to lift the grounds on all the other amps and rack unit plugged into the Furman?

NO!! The ground is there to protect you and your equipment. If you lift all your grounds, there is no protection anywhere. In fact, any device you lift the ground on is at risk.

But the Furman would still be grounded

It would, but that is probably the least valuable thing in your rack. Why would you want to protect that but nothing else? Yes, the Furman can provide protection due to its built in devices that regulate power, but unless all units have a path to ground, there is risk to them.

 

[Danimal]

Why ask a question only to argue with the answer?

 

[ando]

Why ask a question only to argue with the answer?

LOL, yeah. Reminds me of when I try to explain how computers work to my parents. They don't get it and then they get angry and say, "well, it shouldn't work that way!". The truth is, some people just don't want to listen or learn. They want to hold onto their preconceptions.

 

[zachman]

If you lift all your grounds, there is no protection anywhere. In fact, any device you lift the ground on is at risk.
But the Furman would still be grounded.

Yes, the Furman can provide protection due to its built in devices that regulate power, but unless all units have a path to ground, there is risk to them.

When you're using a 2 amp rig like in the videos, the two amps are fighting for ground, and creating the Ground Loop, so-- since the guitar and the 2 amps are connected and one of the amps is the established ground to the rest of your system, you/the system are/is grounded via the one amp, being powered from a viable source with good ground. :wink:

 

[ando]

If you lift all your grounds, there is no protection anywhere. In fact, any device you lift the ground on is at risk.
But the Furman would still be grounded.

Yes, the Furman can provide protection due to its built in devices that regulate power, but unless all units have a path to ground, there is risk to them.

When you're using a 2 amp rig like in the videos, the two amps are fighting for ground, and creating the Ground Loop, so-- since the guitar and the 2 amps are connected and one of the amps is the established ground to the rest of your system, you/the system are/is grounded via the one amp, being powered from a viable source with good ground. :wink:

There is ground and there is ground though. With 2 amps and one of them in a ground lift situation, yes, there is a theoretical path to ground for everything - but that doesn't guarantee that is the event of a short circuit that the electrical safety is guaranteed. If you lift the ground on one amp in a two amp setup, the path to ground is via the shielding in your cables. Sometimes these aren't the best connections. They aren't designed to carry high voltage or current and they are often weak connections due to cable being continually moved around, wound and unwound etc. Such a ground can burn out in an instant (like a fuse) and leave a live cable. In theory, you could still have voltage grounded through your guitar and yourself if your cable grounding failed somewhere. So, ground lift is not a guarantee of electrical safety - it a solution for ground loop hum. Unless you have a hum problem, you should always have your grounds connected. Ground lifts are fine, but they still require you to have all your gear properly connected, maintained and regularly inspected.

 

[zachman]

If you lift all your grounds, there is no protection anywhere. In fact, any device you lift the ground on is at risk.
But the Furman would still be grounded.

Yes, the Furman can provide protection due to its built in devices that regulate power, but unless all units have a path to ground, there is risk to them.

When you're using a 2 amp rig like in the videos, the two amps are fighting for ground, and creating the Ground Loop, so-- since the guitar and the 2 amps are connected and one of the amps is the established ground to the rest of your system, you/the system are/is grounded via the one amp, being powered from a viable source with good ground. :wink:

There is ground and there is ground though. With 2 amps and one of them in a ground lift situation, yes, there is a theoretical path to ground for everything - but that doesn't guarantee that is the event of a short circuit that the electrical safety is guaranteed. If you lift the ground on one amp in a two amp setup, the path to ground is via the shielding in your cables. Sometimes these aren't the best connections. They aren't designed to carry high voltage or current and they are often weak connections due to cable being continually moved around, wound and unwound etc. Such a ground can burn out in an instant (like a fuse) and leave a live cable. In theory, you could still have voltage grounded through your guitar and yourself if your cable grounding failed somewhere. So, ground lift is not a guarantee of electrical safety - it a solution for ground loop hum. Unless you have a hum problem, you should always have your grounds connected. Ground lifts are fine, but they still require you to have all your gear properly connected, maintained and regularly inspected.

Thanks...

As a Rig builder/designer and owner of a unusually complex, and noise free-- multi amp switching w/d/w rig-- consisting of some quite high-end gear, player for 30+ years with a degree in EE, I understand grounding and shielding, signal routing, proper gear maintenance, trouble shooting and how to properly inspect electronic guitar equipment.

:wink:

Click the link in my signature at the bottom for videos of the rig live in concert.

Here are some pics of How it looks when it's done "right/correctly". :mrgreen:

 

[ando]

Zachman, you are clearly the self-appointed expert on all things rack, but you left the door open for an explanation and I gave one. By posting the way you do, you are pretty much saying, "no need for anybody else to ever post an answer again, folks. I know more than the rest of you put together. I'll handle the questions from now on. Just look at the pics of my rig for the 90th time..."

Look dude, you probably do know more than the rest of us, but what's with the attitude? No room for other comments/opinions/explanations as long as you are in the room? You never know, there may be something you've missed at some stage....

Edit: oh and by the way, my posts were aimed at some newbies who need to be set right on grounding before they do something dangerous. They weren't for you. Your post actually paved the way for more confusion for them - that's why I replied to it, to help them. Obviously I am not trying to educate somebody of your background. Maybe just think a little more about where the conversation is headed before you post.

 

[zachman]

Zachman, you are clearly the self-appointed expert on all things rack,

I don't consider myself "The" 'self-appointed expert on all things rack'-- Just one experienced expert. There are many others, who I respect, which is why I posted the videos of them, explaining the topic, instead of doing it myself. That and I was being lazy.

but you left the door open for an explanation and I gave one.

It appeared to me that what you posted wasn't so much of an explanation, as a rebutal/educational seminar to me-- as though I was ignorant.

By posting the way you do, you are pretty much saying, "no need for anybody else to ever post an answer again, folks. I know more than the rest of you put together. I'll handle the questions from now on.

Not at all. See above

Just look at the pics of my rig for the 90th time..."

Hmmm... okay, I suppose if there was only one post pics of your rig thread, you'd in my view-- have a more valid point. As it is, it sounds like sour grapes to me.

Look dude, you probably do know more than the rest of us, but what's with the attitude? No room for other comments/opinions/explanations as long as you are in the room? You never know, there may be something you've missed at some stage....

My initial post of the video explanations, by the experts at Taylor Guitars to the topic of Ground Loops, Grounding and Shielding and Safety--was an "In general/general educational" post.

Re: My post to you

I wasn't responding in general, because your comment wasn't in general. It was specifically directed at me. Had you posted what you did, and not quoted me, I would have not likely responded at all, to your post.

I hope that clears up why I posted what I did, specifically to you.

No offense intended

 

[ando]

Zachman, you are clearly the self-appointed expert on all things rack, but you left the door open for an explanation and I gave one. By posting the way you do, you are pretty much saying, "no need for anybody else to ever post an answer again, folks. I know more than the rest of you put together. I'll handle the questions from now on. Just look at the pics of my rig for the 90th time..."

Look dude, you probably do know more than the rest of us, but what's with the attitude? No room for other comments/opinions/explanations as long as you are in the room? You never know, there may be something you've missed at some stage....

I wasn't responding in general, because your comment wasn't in general. It was specifically directed at me.

Actually, my comment was in general due to an issue you raised. There are people on this forum who are contemplating some dangerous stuff so we have to be careful that we are clear about what we say. No one doubts your knowledge, but you are still capable of an omission.

 

[zachman]

Zachman, you are clearly the self-appointed expert on all things rack, but you left the door open for an explanation and I gave one. By posting the way you do, you are pretty much saying, "no need for anybody else to ever post an answer again, folks. I know more than the rest of you put together. I'll handle the questions from now on. Just look at the pics of my rig for the 90th time..."

Look dude, you probably do know more than the rest of us, but what's with the attitude? No room for other comments/opinions/explanations as long as you are in the room? You never know, there may be something you've missed at some stage....

I wasn't responding in general, because your comment wasn't in general. It was specifically directed at me.

Actually, my comment was in general due to an issue you raised. There are people on this forum who are contemplating some dangerous stuff so we have to be careful that we are clear about what we say. No one doubts your knowledge, but you are still capable of an omission.

See my above Edited post

I am definitely just human and not infallible. Though I don't believe the video explanations I posted left anything out, other than the fact that if you are using a wireless-- the safety issue to the player, in the scenario you described-- would be irrelevant.

I doubt you're suggesting that a "Complete" College study is required for responses, so to that end-- I'll defer to the experts from Taylor Guitars, and their decision to post what they deemed relevant/important re: Grounding/Shielding and Safety, in the videos they made, which I thought would be helpful to the thread topic, of "Ground Noise".

Peace

 

[ando]

Anything I said was in the name of clarification for the benefit of others, not rebuttal of you personally.