Gain controls on Mark V?

[chipaudette]

So I've been reading all the discussion of the Mark V, and I've seen the videos, and I've looked at the pics, and I've been to Mesa's site...but I can't seem to understand the gain controls on the Mark V relative to the other Mark amps...

The older Marks had *two* gain controls and a master volume for the lead channel. Looking at each channel on the Mark V, I see a single gain control and then a knob labeled "Master". To me, it sounds like they've dropped a gain control.

How can you claim to recreate the Mark I, Mark IIC, or Mark IV with only 1 gain control? Having those two controls is what made you able to dial in such a variety of high gain sounds. Granted, many of the sounds were crappy, but that was the fun! On those older amps, setting the first gain high and the second gain low (the "high-low" config) gave very different sounds compared to the "low-high" config. The pics of the new Mark V control layout suggests (to me) that they've dumped the two knob gain controls.

Can someone explain to me how the Mark V gain controls work? Is it just the one gain knob for the lead channels?

Thanks,

Chip

 

[JOEY B.]

I had the same discussion last night with a soon-to-be MkV owner. IIRC, the first gain on the MkII-IV is before the tone stack and the lead drive is after it. The lack of two controls will not allow you to "blend" them for the best balance on each guitar. Some guitars need more of one and less of another, and vice-versa for the optimum lead tone. This will be a topic of much interest when we have the Mark series shootout. :twisted:

 

[chipaudette]

I was wondering if maybe the gain control on channel 1 acted as the first gain control for the other two channels. Of course, this would destroy the Mark V philosophy of 3 completely independent channels.

If they really did drop the two-knob concept, this would be a gigantic departure from the traditional Mark series. A huge departure. Hopefully, it's for the better...but it seems like a scary-big change.

Chip

 

[rcc]

I was wondering if maybe the gain control on channel 1 acted as the first gain control for the other two channels. Of course, this would destroy the Mark V philosophy of 3 completely independent channels.

If they really did drop the two-knob concept, this would be a gigantic departure from the traditional Mark series. A huge departure. Hopefully, it's for the better...but it seems like a scary-big change.

Chip

It does indeed. I hope that the gain structure is such that the single gain control possesses enough gain to compensate. Otherwise, it's gonna tick off a lot of folks... myself included since I've already placed a pre-order (probably should've waited, but..)

 

[dodger916]

I was wondering if maybe the gain control on channel 1 acted as the first gain control for the other two channels. Of course, this would destroy the Mark V philosophy of 3 completely independent channels.

If they really did drop the two-knob concept, this would be a gigantic departure from the traditional Mark series. A huge departure. Hopefully, it's for the better...but it seems like a scary-big change.

Chip

I don't believe the gain or volume of Channel One of the Mark IV affects the tone of channels Two or Three. Perhaps the departure began with the Mark III?

 

[MrMarkIII]

Dodger916 is correct. The Mark IV gain controls are totally independent, nothing new here.
If it's a big, scary change, it happened 18 years ago.

 

[chipaudette]

Yes, the Mark IV is totally independent...I agree. But, I'm interested in the number of gain controls...

The Mark IV has a "Lead Gain" and a "Lead Drive" in addition to the "Lead Master". In other words, you've got two gain controls as well as a master volume for the lead channel. The use of two gain controls, I believe, has been the standard since the Mark I. The Mark V, by contrast, appears to only have a "gain" and "master" for each channel.

My guess is that Mesa dropped the first gain pot and, instead, put a fixed resistor network in the circuit to simulate the pot being set to some "typical" value...say equivalent to a setting of 7.5. If that's the case, then the Mark V "gain" control is the same as the "drive" on the Mark IV. That's my guess. Hopefully, people like the sound of it.

No matter how they chose to implement it, by only having one knob, it looks like a big change in how people are used to interacting with their boogies.

So, we return to my original question...how does the Mark V use one "gain" knob to simulate the behavior of the two gain knobs that were previously standard?

Chip

 

[MetalMatt]

...by only having one knob, it looks like a big change in how people are used to interacting with their boogies...

Chip

It just makes it easier for players to dial in the amp. Where the IV was difficult for some.

Mark Five(V) "Finding your voice is easy" -Mesa

 

[kiff]

It just makes it easier for players to dial in the amp. Where the IV was difficult for some.

yea, but I don't think it was the 2 gains that made it difficult, IMO. I think it was more of the shared tone controls of r1 and r2

 

[mystidream]

Yes, the Mark IV is totally independent...I agree. But, I'm interested in the number of gain controls...

The Mark IV has a "Lead Gain" and a "Lead Drive" in addition to the "Lead Master". In other words, you've got two gain controls as well as a master volume for the lead channel. The use of two gain controls, I believe, has been the standard since the Mark I. The Mark V, by contrast, appears to only have a "gain" and "master" for each channel.

My guess is that Mesa dropped the first gain pot and, instead, put a fixed resistor network in the circuit to simulate the pot being set to some "typical" value...say equivalent to a setting of 7.5. If that's the case, then the Mark V "gain" control is the same as the "drive" on the Mark IV. That's my guess. Hopefully, people like the sound of it.

No matter how they chose to implement it, by only having one knob, it looks like a big change in how people are used to interacting with their boogies.

So, we return to my original question...how does the Mark V use one "gain" knob to simulate the behavior of the two gain knobs that were previously standard?

Chip

When the manual is available on the website, read it. I'm sure that will definitely answer your question. Keep in mind that while the V doesn't have the 2 gain knobs, it does have the mode switch, so maybe the mode switch in the Mark IV position mimics one of those gain knobs. As a matter of fact, it says that with the toggle set on Mark IV that it is the 'FAT' mode of the Mark IV.

 

[JOEY B.]

The avg. player doesn't think in terms of "do I need to apply more gain pre or post tone stack.

If any of you guys have a MkII, III, or IV, try this experiment. Put your amp in the "lead" channel and set the Volume 1 (Lead gain on MkIV) to 9 and the lead drive to 5. Crank the volume to a decent level, then compare it to a setting of Volume 1 = 7 amd Lead drive = 7. There is a difference in tone, even though both settings add up to 14 :lol: .

 

[JimmyB]

If any of you guys have a MkII, III, or IV, try this experiment. Put your amp in the "lead" channel and set the Volume 1 (Lead gain on MkIV) to 9 and the lead drive to 5. Crank the volume to a decent level, then compare it to a setting of Volume 1 = 7 amd Lead drive = 7. There is a difference in tone, even though both settings add up to 14 :lol: .

I'm a Mk IV noob and I just discovered the pre- and post- architecture the other day! Somewhat different numbers, but I tried the same experiment just yesterday. :lol: I was surprised by the huge difference between the two scenarios. :twisted:

 

[Silverwulf]

If it sounds good, who cares? I've not heard of one person that's played on one yet that wasn't completely blown away. This amp has options out the rear and people continue to complain that it doesn't make toast or do your laundry, all without ever even trying it... :wink:

If Randall Smith thinks two isn't necessary, I'm not gonna question it, especially without owning one and spending some time with it first. Just give it a try, then make a judgment call.

 

[JOEY B.]

If it sounds good, who cares? I've not heard of one person that's played on one yet that wasn't completely blown away. This amp has options out the rear and people continue to complain that it doesn't make toast or do your laundry, all without ever even trying it... :wink:

If Randall Smith thinks two isn't necessary, I'm not gonna question it, especially without owning one and spending some time with it first. Just give it a try, then make a judgment call.

My comments are not complaints, but merely observations. When Mike's MarkV hits North Alabama, then the observations will turn into opinions :twisted: .

 

[phyrexia]

I'm sure it's one knob controlling a stacked pot. I am not too concerned.

The manual is basically online. Mesa goes through every knob and function on that "features" section I think. Or maybe the "full story".

Anyway I'm gonna use my IIIs for leads and my V for everything else so I don't care, I'll still have my lead drive and lead gain :lol: :roll: :mrgreen: