Fuzzy, Buzzy, Muddy Single Rect-0 2 problem finally SOLVED

[old-guy]

Yo Boys!
I posted 3 letters about the problem that I was having with my RV. I had the head with the 2x12 V-30 Recto bottom. Now, bear in mind I'm not a metal player. (For the record, I like metal and appreciate the talent and the technique required to play it) I play classic rock, blues, jazz, country etc. When I bought my RV I was told and read in reviews that this amp could do it all. From day one I was not happy with my sound. I blamed myself. It had to be my inexperience with an amp of this caliber and quality. I talked with Mesa, I put the amp in a larger room, I bought a Hot Plate, I raised the amp off the ground, I tweaked and tweaked, I swapped out the tubes, I even changed the pups in my PRS Custom 24, My LP sounded muddy. I finally contacted Trace at Voodoo Amps upstate NY. He said my problem was 2 fold. It was my amp and the cabinet that I had chosen. He could re-voice the amp for me but the cabinet would have to go. I was pretty upset to say the least and really felt like an a--hole. I calmed down and thought about things for a week. I got up yesterday morning and it came to me .......................
I put my amp into my pick-up (truck), went to a GC and traded it in for a Lone Star Classic. Took a bath on the RV but I gotta tell you guys, for me, it's the best money that I ever lost. They let me bring the Lone Star into a small "quiet " room and play it to my hearts content. It absolutely had that clean, chimey, bell like tone that had been so elusive for the past 9 months. I also tried the L.S. Special. LSS definitely not enough clean head room and I've come to know that I'm not a fan of EL84's. All you guys that have the LLS don't get mad at me. I think the LSS is an excellent amp, it's just not for me. I knew the tone (inside my head) that I was looking for and the 6L6's are what do it for me. I told the guy at GC the only thing that I was worried about was that the amp wasn't going to sound as good in my little 8'x 10' music room at home. He said "if you don't like it, bring it back, we'll do whatever you want, refund, exchange
etc." Here's the good part. This amp sounded every bit as good in my room as it did in theirs. Clean, chimey, bell-like tones. The thing that really made me feel good is that I wasn't freak'n crazy. The tone that I was looking for did in fact exist. THIS AMP SHINES. Now I gotta get a new pedal for my "Santana" sound. That's one thing that the RV did really well that this one can't do. But that's OK. Do any of you guys have any suggestions for the pedal? I have a modded Analog-man TS-9, it's great but it's not gonna do "Santana" for me.

Thanks for the "ear" guys. Just needed to share the "relief." Now I look foward to playing again. The only thing that I noticed is that this amp is not forgiving. There are no "cover-ups." If my playing is "off" I can definitely hear it. Let me tell ya, I found out that I need more practice. A lot of the notes that I thought I was hitting clean, guess what ........... like I said, I need more practice. But that's OK, that's what I was looking for!


Play Well!

 

[Vshine]

Very cool. I'm glad you were able to find an amp that was perfect to you. That's a credit to Mesa, their line is diverse enough for everyone.

 

[screamingdaisy]

I put my amp into my pick-up (truck), went to a GC and traded it in for a Lone Star Classic.

Now that's a mod and a half!

Glad you found what you were after.

Santana does two TS-9s into a Mk1....but I donno if you're going to get that out of a Lone Star, and as much as the boutiquiers try, there really is no way to get Boogie tone in a pedal.

Maybe check out the V-Twin pedal to see how it reacts with your amp? It's not so much a pedal as it is a floor based preamp, and the lower gain settings might fill that tone gap.

It's recently become out of production, but there should still be some kicking around.....but if you're in no hurry, there's rumors floating around that Mesa is releasing a new pedal.

http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Out_of%20_Production/V-Twin/v-twin.html

 

[lookslikemeband]

Agreed... No real "Boogie in a pedal" that I've found....

I know I've mentioned it before... but the Reverend Drivetrain II, or Fulltone Fulldrive 2 are very "tweakable" and awesome sounding...

Good luck!!

 

[tele_jas]

I run a V-Twin with my T-Verb head and my R-Verb combo and I cant do a show with out it. Both my amps are 2 ch amps but with the V-twin, I get an extra 2 or 3 channels depending on how I set my amp up. I usually run the amps with a clean channel and a full metal channel and use the V-Twin on the clean channel for 2 levels of semi distorted/overdrive channels. So I have: A clean * a semi overdriven * a more overdriven * and a full out Recto assult and I can play anything from Keith Urban and Brad Paisley to AC/DC on up to Puddle of Mudd and Creed and all points in between.

I remember trying out a V-Twin about 10 years ago when I was playing mostly country and thought it was purely a "Metal" stomp box, but now that I finally got one (10 years later), I have found some of the best semi distorted and classic tones in this little unit that I've ever heard - very versatile........ (Just a little FYI).

another bit of FYI...... I had trouble getting my PODxt to sound good, so I ran it in to my V-twin on the clean setting with the gain up about 1/2 way and it made the PODxt sound like a real amp and not a modeler. To hear what V-Twin can do for a PODxt, check out the song "Gone" here at this link http://www.guitartest.moonfruit.com/ .

 

[old-guy]

Thanks for the input. The store that I bought the RV in 9 months ago had one in a display case. I remember looking at it. I'm gonna head there this week and see if they still have it.

Thanks, you guys are good!

 

[Gary K]

Old-Guy,

Congrats on your Lone Star Classic!

I have also come to find out I favor the 6L6/EL34 tube sound more than the EL84s.

After you spend some time with your LSC, please post a message about how you are liking it.

-Gary K

 

[old-guy]

Gary K.
I'll do that! Last night I spent some time playing around with the some of the sound options. This thing has so many choices I can't believe it. But if you have any experience with Mesa amps it's a piece of cake "tweaking". What was cool for me was that after all the things that I did with my RV, I actually "understand" the manual for the LS and what the controls do. When I first got the RV I was "absolutely clueless." I never had an amp before where the controls were so sensitive and actually did something. Right now I'm having a ball with this thing. After the honeymoon is over I'll do a new post. But I really think that I found my "keeper". The "tone" has such clarity and depth, it's just incredible.
Right now I'm LOV'N THIS THING. As I'm writting, I'm smiling just thinking about it. Think I'm Happy?

Thanks!
Bob M.
"The Old Guy"

 

[TheRazMeister]

Bob, another (cheaper) option might be a Zakk Wylde Overdrive. My buddy at GC (plays, and plays VERY well, a Maverick) was raving about how the ZW-44 gave him added aggressiveness without coloring the sound. I use it with my ROV. This allows me to keep my gain at a tighter setting, say 1-1:30 and then kick in the pedal for screaming leads and more harmonics when I need them. Remember though that this is NOT a distortion pedal and will not get you much with the clean channel. But to my ears, that's the beauty of the ZW-44, sort of like having an "11" (spoken with english accent) for your gain. And truthfully, that seemed to be the only issue with the LSS...not quite as much gain as a ROV.
PS - I'm more of a 70's-80's heavy rock guy also and also use a Santana-ish tone at times..

Thanks for the input. The store that I bought the RV in 9 months ago had one in a display case. I remember looking at it. I'm gonna head there this week and see if they still have it.

Thanks, you guys are good!

 

[old-guy]

Thanks Raz!
I'm writting down all the suggestions that you guys are giving me. I have a tough week (workwise) ahead of me but I think next week I'll grab some time for "pedal research."
Raz, you have the ROV combo? I'll tell ya, I think if I had gotten the combo instead of the head with the 2X12 bottom, I would have been allot happier. When I went from a Blues Junior to the ROV I was "cream'n". I was in Santana heaven. But after a couple of weeks with this "bad boy" in my small room I was like "holy s--t ........ what the hell did I do???????????" For someone who plays out this amp would be one aggressive beast. I play for my own pleasure, sometimes for family and friends. but that's it. I had a THD Hot Plate hooked up to it, just couldn't tame it down enough without killing the tone. I read reviews on Harmony Central from guys who own the ROV 112 combo. Almost everone was real happy with it. Totally different sound. So I learned in my case, bigger is not always better. (That's what I keep telling my wife.) So now I listen with my ears and not with the "lower part" of my body when I buy something. (If you know what I mean.) It was an expensive mistake.
Nobody to blame but myself.

Play well! And thanks for the input.

 

[TheRazMeister]

I know what you mean about the bigger/better LOL!!! But seriously, the ROV combo has been great for me. I too spend more time at home lately than gigging (hopefully to change soon!) and the combo gets great tone with the gain at 2:00 master at 9:00 and the output master off (AM volume) or at about 9:00 for afternoon volume. I practise at 6:00AM with sleeping kids and typically play on the neck PU with the PU volume at 3-5....it gives me nice tone and a good elastic feel. Mind you, I have the Ser 1 ROV which is not quite as aggressive as the Ser 2. For some reason, I never was able to get the series 2 to sound like I wanted. That being said, I believe the LS to be a better amp than the ROV overall.. BTW - Samash has the ZW-44 for less than 90 bucks...just wait for a Sam ash something off of 50 or 60 sale and make GC price match it. I got mine for less than 75 out the door.

Thanks Raz!
I'm writting down all the suggestions that you guys are giving me. I have a tough week (workwise) ahead of me but I think next week I'll grab some time for "pedal research."
Raz, you have the ROV combo? I'll tell ya, I think if I had gotten the combo instead of the head with the 2X12 bottom, I would have been allot happier. When I went from a Blues Junior to the ROV I was "cream'n". I was in Santana heaven. But after a couple of weeks with this "bad boy" in my small room I was like "holy s--t ........ what the hell did I do???????????" For someone who plays out this amp would be one aggressive beast. I play for my own pleasure, sometimes for family and friends. but that's it. I had a THD Hot Plate hooked up to it, just couldn't tame it down enough without killing the tone. I read reviews on Harmony Central from guys who own the ROV 112 combo. Almost everone was real happy with it. Totally different sound. So I learned in my case, bigger is not always better. (That's what I keep telling my wife.) So now I listen with my ears and not with the "lower part" of my body when I buy something. (If you know what I mean.) It was an expensive mistake.
Nobody to blame but myself.

Play well! And thanks for the input.

 

[screamingdaisy]

Bob, another (cheaper) option might be a Zakk Wylde Overdrive. My buddy at GC (plays, and plays VERY well, a Maverick) was raving about how the ZW-44 gave him added aggressiveness without coloring the sound.

I also use a ZW-44, for much the same reason....but I would hardly call the tone it gives me as Santana-ish...atleast not when compared to a TS-9.

 

[TheRazMeister]

That's my point about the ZW44, it doesn't give you anything that you didn't have before, it just makes it growl and squeal a little more. The thing about getting Santana tones is that the guitar will dictate much of the sound. It's imperative to play thru a Mahogany/Maple body with beef to it. I use an Ibanez Artist AR2000 that is very similar to the PRS Santana model as far as feel and sound. A good LP or PRS will definitely head you in the right direction, especially thru a Mesa. Lighter guitars or single coils will always "kinda" get the sound but not convincingly.

Bob, another (cheaper) option might be a Zakk Wylde Overdrive. My buddy at GC (plays, and plays VERY well, a Maverick) was raving about how the ZW-44 gave him added aggressiveness without coloring the sound.

I also use a ZW-44, for much the same reason....but I would hardly call the tone it gives me as Santana-ish...atleast not when compared to a TS-9.

 

[Broken]

Try this out for a TS 9 clone but with double the gain and all the boutique features http://www.miaudio.com/BP_Intro.htm

Its cool and nothing beats it for the price.

 

[screamingdaisy]

That's my point about the ZW44, it doesn't give you anything that you didn't have before, it just makes it growl and squeal a little more. The thing about getting Santana tones is that the guitar will dictate much of the sound. It's imperative to play thru a Mahogany/Maple body with beef to it. I use an Ibanez Artist AR2000 that is very similar to the PRS Santana model as far as feel and sound. A good LP or PRS will definitely head you in the right direction, especially thru a Mesa. Lighter guitars or single coils will always "kinda" get the sound but not convincingly.

I donno.

I use a Les Paul through a Rectifier....I have a voicing called "Fat", which the manual says is the same preamp circuit as a MkI. I had my best results using a pair of TS-9s into this channel. But then again....maybe your Maveric is voiced to sound like a boosted MkI?

Anyway, considering that we both agree with how transparent the ZW is, I kinda question it's ability to give a Lone Star a Santana type tone....

 

[StrykeBack]

But that's OK. Do any of you guys have any suggestions for the pedal? I have a modded Analog-man TS-9, it's great but it's not gonna do "Santana" for me.

I'm using a rectoverb and before i had that i still have my Ashdown peacemaker 20 watt. A really nice overdrive pedal that will get you some santana tones is from Monster Effects El Dorado, its a boutique pedal but i believe around 120 or 150. you can get it www.tonefactor.com

obviously using neck only pup and turning down your treble will get you most of the way here but also a barber tone press compressor will help out as well.

 

[old-guy]

Stry
Thanks for the suggestion and for hooking me up with the web site. I appreciate it very much!

Bob M.

 

[StrykeBack]

go to harmony central and do a search in the guitar forums and some guys have a bunch of clips with the El Dorado. some great sounds out of a faily inexpensive boutique pedal

 

[old-guy]

OK, I'm heading there in a little while to check it out.